*churches: judge or lead?

churches: judge or lead?

relocated to: http://wp.me/punib-2tc

 

3 Responses to “*churches: judge or lead?”

  1. Erin Says:
    September 18, 2009 at 6:56 am | Reply

    “So many churches promote the worship of Jesus and yet ignore his teachings.”

    They sure do ignore his teachings. That is why the divorce rate is so high!

    “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
    —Jesus Christ

    Because remarrying after a divorce constitutes adultery, we must ask ourselves who are we committing adultery against if we are no longer married? If a divorce makes us free and single why are we committing adultery AFTER a divorce and if we have no spouse AFTER a divorce then who are we committing adultery against?

    The answer would have to be that it is against the one from whom we are divorced. This would mean that a divorce does not dissolve the marriage bond if we can still commit adultery AFTER the court proclaims that they have dissolved our marriage.

    If divorce truly ended marriage, it would be impossible to commit adultery AFTER divorcing. The fact that Jesus Himself says that the adultery kicks in AFTER a divorce must mean that divorce is powerless to actually end the marriage covenant that God has said is for life.

    “A wife is married to her husband as long as he lives.”
    1 Corinthians 7:39

    Many, many people today are deceived.

    If a divorce makes us single, why are we then committing adultery while on a honeymoon with a new partner AFTER a divorce?

    The court may declare someone’s marriage dissolved but Jesus does not agree with the court. Luke 16:18

    http://www.cadz.net/tony.html

    http://www.marriagedivorce.com/mdreform2.htm

  2. jrfibonacci Says:
    September 18, 2009 at 8:34 am | Reply

    Hi Erin,

    Thank you for participating in the conversation. By the way, I am curious how you found your way to this page, if you are willing to share- for I do not recognize your name.

    Asto your reply, you quoted Luke 16:18 without citing it (in regard to marriage and adultery).

    Have you noticed that Mark 10:11 is similar?
    And He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;

    Yet what of these verses from Matthew?
    Matthew 19:9 “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

    5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

    While I am curious how you might comment on that, note that I was not inviting a conversation about what is or is not adultery. I was inviting a conversation about how people (like us) can support marriages that work- perhaps starting with our own, if married. Indeed, promoting marriages that work was a rather small part of the conversation I was inviting, but a distinctive one.

    I could mention to you the crowd ready to stone one accused of adultery (perhaps a prostitute even as I recall), and the legendary response of Jesus. I propose to you, Erin, that churches in which any definition of adultery is cited, but in which that later story is not taught together with it… simply cannot promote happy, functional marriages- not for the sake of avoiding adultery- but for the glorification of God through the marriage (and any children). Are you clear on the distinction I am making between avoiding adultery and glorifying God through a happy,functional marriage?

    The global shift that is emerging will strain and then break many marriages (and churches)… whose foundations are on sand. This is not for us to gloat in, but to let our hearts be broken not by the breakdown, but by the failure of some hearts to open to God… for it is in our opening our hearts to those who are suffering, struggling, feeling shame, and so on… that the shift emerging may be a blessing to them, prompting them to receive the spirit of God into their heart, after letting the spirit of divisiveness (the devil) be cast out.

    Erin, Jesus was asked what is the most important commandment. Do you know what he said?

    In my experience, not only is it odd to me that a long-time Christian or even a minister would not know (and I have asked one who did not), but it is odd to me that so many mainstream Christians- or Christaloters, as I may call them- seem to have no idea of the meaning of the saying “God is one,” and, more startlingly to me, perhaps no interest either.

    When a man and a woman are raised in the Holy Spirit, knowing that God is one as a direct experience, not a mere cryptic saying they may have once heard- it is then that no one can put asunder what God has brought together… and only then. The civil marriages which are “not holy” – not on the foundation of two hearts opening as one to God – cannot last. Sure, adultery may result or not, but if people do not have their hearts open to God, then being married “faithfully” (like faithful to their spouse but perhaps not faithful together to God), well, that may not be much of a consolation prize.

    John 20:22-23 “…Receive the Holy Spirit.23 “aIf you forgive the sins of any, their sins 1have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

    Erin, be careful that you understand that the teachings of Jesus on adultery is not meant for anyone else- that is, not for you to apply to anyone else in judgment of them. For, if you judge another, it is your own soul that bears the guilt of the judgment.

    Luke 6:37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.

    Consider that the following passage, a famous story that I referenced above, ends with a direction to repent of and “give up sin.” I include this apssage in particular that you Erin may consider that one sin that one might give up is that of judgment against one of God’s own creations, of which, by the way, you, Erin, are one. God bless you.

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    New International Version

    ——————————————————————————–

    1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

    9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

    11“No one, sir,” she said.

    “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

  3. jrfibonacci Says:
    September 18, 2009 at 4:04 pm | Reply

    Have you not heard something like the following?

    Let your heart be free from sin; let it be pure. It what comes out of your mouth (proceeding from your heart) and your actions (again, proceeding from a corrupt heart) which defile you. In Matthew 5, Jesus warns that it is not just murder, but even mere anger that is at issue. He goes on thusly:

    27“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’e 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

    Divorce

    31“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’f 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

    The traditions and thoughts built upon sand are but “chasing the wind.” See Ecclesiastes.

    Ecclesiastes 1 >>
    New International Version

    1The words of the Teacher,a son of David, king in Jerusalem:

    2“Meaningless! Meaningless!”

    says the Teacher.

    “Utterly meaningless!

    Everything is meaningless.”

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