shaming and post-racial dignity

See, Dame didn’t get the memo, thus one of the reason he is losing! Thoughts?
DAME DASH says a Jewish businessman calls black people ”liquid money” because we give it all away!!In a recent article Dash quoted a colleague saying: “We call you (black people) liquid money. The same way that water falls out of a man’s hands, money typically seeps out of a black person’s hands the same way. Your community gets money and immediately gives it all away to people who aren’t black. We see that as a huge business opportunity.”

Examples used – black people on payday or when they get our tax refunds. He noted blacks to an Indian business to cash the check, an Asian hair salon, a corner store owned by Arabs and/or a department store owned by whites. When it’s all said and done these other business people are waiting like hungry animals to eat blacks’ bank accounts as if they are the prey.

Whatcha’ think Agree or Disagree ______________________?

Listen to LAMONDA: http://bit.ly/WBLSLive

— with Hattie Kidd and 2 others.

Photo: DAME DASH says a Jewish businessman calls black people ”liquid money” because we give it all away!!</p> <p>In a recent article Dash quoted a colleague saying: “We call you (black people) liquid money. The same way that water falls out of a man’s hands, money typically seeps out of a black person’s hands the same way. Your community gets money and immediately gives it all away to people who aren’t black. We see that as a huge business opportunity.” </p> <p>Examples used - black people on payday or when they get our tax refunds. He noted blacks to an Indian business to cash the check, an Asian hair salon, a corner store owned by Arabs and/or a department store owned by whites. When it’s all said and done these other business people are waiting like hungry animals to eat blacks' bank accounts as if they are the prey.</p> <p>Whatcha' think Agree or Disagree ______________________? Listen to LAMONDA: http://bit.ly/WBLSLive
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  • 11 people like this.
  • William Winter Nesbitt I said Buy Black yall said I was a racist (the generic yall) im sleep though.
  • DeTravius Bethea Man William Nesbitt I’m the one that put you on to black banks man! You was giving all your money to Bank of America before you met me! Lol
  • Jean Cyrille Is this the same Dame Dash that wore a new pair of kicks everyday?
  • William Winter Nesbitt He had to cut back of late…
  • DeTravius Bethea He is older and wiser Jean Cyrille…I think
  • King Sharp That’s a truth that has always been evident, but always hard to change
  • Jeff Canady few hundreds years pf pyschological slavery makes it a little difficult to teach people within a few decades how to handle money! What is others excuse?
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn “Shame on those less wealthy people doing business with those businesses owned by people who are more wealthy!”
  • William Winter Nesbitt ^^ i dont follow
  • DeTravius Bethea J R Fibonacci Hunn you lost me…please explain.
  • DeTravius Bethea Jeff Canady you liked the statement…please elaborate too.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn I am referencing the politics of shaming. Take the presumption that there are such things as “oppressed minorites.” We could list a few (women, blind women, blind women of native american descent, etc). Then, we could condemn the blind women of native american descent for the outrageous behavior of doing business with people who are not blind women of native american descent.What is that? That is vilification, shaming, oppression. THAT condemnation is part of the oppression.

    The idea that “black people” should only do business within their own race is remarkable. Do Hebrews only do business with their own “race?” Is that the key to their prosperity?

    (Note that “black people” seems to be a term mostly meaningful in the US, since in the UK or Cuba or Brazil, it might not have much meaning.) That reminds me: I know this brown-skinned fellow from London and he did business with another dark-skinned lady from Malyasia, another in Mexico, and two in Australia. Do you know what happened to him? He went to heaven because he exclusively did business with “darkies.” It was very inspiring. The only problem is that there was a dark-skinned Ethiopian Jew who was condemning him for doing too much business with people over the age of 47. Tragic, huh?

  • William Winter Nesbitt Yup. That is what I thought he meant. DeTravius BetheaI guess I am not post racial yet.
  • DeTravius Bethea Was the article “shaming” tho J R Fibonacci Hunn? Also your example is faulty for many reasons…most importantly its impossible to do business in the USA with people who look just like you, but I guess “buy American” or “buy local” should be eliminated from the public sphere too?
  • William Winter Nesbitt My last statement. The man that has the gold makes the rules
  • Melissa Lightner DeTravius Bethea, Melissa Lightner is patiently waiting for you to put me on to black banks too…please & thank you!
  • DeTravius Bethea Also, are we really going to act like other folks dont do business with people who look like them? Wasnt that the point of instituting Affirmative Action and set asides for woman entrepreneurs/businesses because people WERE NOT doing business with them.
  • DeTravius Bethea How fast do we forget…
  • Melissa Lightner Also, I’ve been saying for long enough now that Brown ppl need to relax with consumerism. If you must spend, support your LOCAL black owned businesses. This isn’t rocket science; and just bc we’re way far behind now doesn’t mean we have too remain that way.
  • DeTravius Bethea http://hbcumoney.com/…/2013s-african-american-owned…/

    hbcumoney.com

    All banks are listed in alphabetical order. In order to be listed in our directo…See More
  • Melissa Lightner Thank ya kindly!
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn If a merchant says “I am a proud black american woman and therefore I will only do business with other proud black american women,” that is not racism. That is marketing. (It may also be ineffective though- unless there is some relevance to the “specialization,” like for a hair stylist.)Racism, how I am using the word, would be something like this: “black american women CANNOT legally do business with anyone except ______.” That would be a legal system of racial oppression, and there are quite a few forms of that.

    Both the idea that “you should be post-racist (like me)” and “you should be racist (like me)” are forms of oppressive idealism. The history of the Hebrews is interesting to me, so here is a bit of trivia related to “oppressive idealism.”

    There is a word “heathen” that is a popular translation of the labels that the ancient Hebrews used for the rest of humanity. The words “ethnic” and “ethnocentric” have the same root as “heathen.”

    The ancient Hebrews used terms like these to reference people who were crude, brutish, uncultured, unrefined, or unenlightened. We could use similar words today like “primitive” or “tribal.” Heathen (how the ancient Hebrews used it) would also mean barbaric, hysterical, emotional, and idealistic, as distinct from “coldly” rational or realistic.

    In BUSINESS, companies (like banks) are out to profit. Merchants are out to profit, just like employees. Drug dealers who sell “only to their own race” are also in business to profit, whether that is Xanax or Statin or Heroine or Wine.

    So, if Dash quotes someone who is shaming people, that is not him shaming. That is him quoting someone shaming. If the “Jewish businessman” was promoting racial seclusion and racial strife, that could be good for his business. Maybe he sells coffins.

  • Melissa Lightner Rather than pointing fingers at any of the other folks, black business owners and consumers need to have panel discussion of sorts. The psychology seems to be that blacks always want a deal/discount from black owners and black owners seem to inflate prices in their own neighborhoods. Not sure what you say to fix that besides set & pay fmv bc none of this is really for our generation. We’re playing catch up, our grandkids can play with the money once there’s actually money to play with.
  • Bailey M. Williams I’m not even sure why I attempt this, bc 95% of non-blacks cannot begin to understand black issues, yet they brandish an opinion of it. J R Fibonacci Hunn, no one is saying “only do businss with blacks”. What is being said is that, we only consume, we do not OWN or SAVE near enough to sustain us as a people. The Jews have been compared to us a lot bc during the years where segregation ended, the Jews were likened to blacks in lots of ways bc of how they were treated by whites. What happened was, the Jews were able to move out of those torn down neighborhoods they once shared with blacks (known as ghettos) and elevate themselves to greater wealth and levels of respect in this country. All the while, the overwhelming majority of blacks still reside in those same ghettos, that look almost identical to the days that segregation ended. The difference? The Jews were united in their front to become lenders and not borrowers. Blacks did the opposite. Now, we are the largest consumers, but only own about 2% of businesses in this country. THAT’S why those Jews can look back at us and see where we went wrong AND capitalize off of it. This is basically saying that we must change our habits if we’ll ever come to be what our ancestors fought for.
  • DeTravius Bethea I’m still a bit lost because I’m not following J R Fibonacci Hunnreasoning, or maybe he just didnt answer my question, so let me try it another way. Do we get rid of “buy local” and/or “buy American” too? Are you suggesting that Jewish people in the USA dont send money back to Israel, Japanese back to Japan Mexicans dont send money back to Mexico, Nigerians back to Nigeria, etc.? Also how is the oppressed suppose to overcome their economic oppression if they are doing business with those who already have the money and/or no interest in their well being?
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn I am “just making conversation.” But it would be weird if someone told Michael Jordan he should only work for a business with black owners “so that he would be more wealthy” or that a converted Jew like Sammy Davis JR should only sell tickets/albums to Jewish fans “so he would be more successful.”I say the businessman talking to Dame (if a real incident) was playing to the “ignorance” of “a heathen.” Heathen, to an ancient Hebrew, means IGNORANT (as in easily fooled).

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Bailey, I have no opinion on “what blacks should do as a people.” No one invited me to vote on it. What you said about it was interesting though.I will say that I can speak as “an American.” On the whole, we only consume, we do not OWN or SAVE (at least not like “the Japs”). We Americans LOVE to borrow- our governments, our corporations, and as individuals. (The Jewish international lenders must really appreciate us!)

  • William Winter Nesbitt Ok I couldnt stay away. Mr. Hunn aside from all the excellent points you have you may have missed the point of this post. “Black” as is commonly understood in the US means darker skinnedpeople of some African descent. Said Black people have historically been impoverished and shut out of wealth for various reasons. (Really just one but whatever)As such, now that some of us blacks have some means to consume but are relatively poorer than much of the wider population, we should in effect pool our resources. Saving more, and redirecting more resources within the roughly defined group as opposed to directly out of it, will enrich us all relatively speaking. Intra race buying has a multiplyer effect in that people in that race have more money. You may also buyand sell to from others as necessary but try to focus on your roughly defined tribe.

    Think a village where noone ever tradedwith each other but rather all resources were procured from and dispersed tooutside that village. It would fail in short order with a significant portion of intra village trade to sustain most members of the village.moreover, external resources are beyond your control and thus not sustainable.

    black is that village

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn In the field of investing, the average ignorant American is shocked when their real estate value drops 25%. It’s like they have no realism about the risk of deflation (if they even know that word). They LOVE to borrow- because that is what the ads are programming them to do- UNTIL the borrowing leads to foreclosure and bankruptcy etc….Most investors are shocked when Bank of America talks about it’s latest plan to remain solvent and avoid bankruptcy. The investors are totally out of touch with the legal system, with creditors and debt and equity and equity shares. So, suddenly all of the equity in the stock shares is re-calculated and the equity disappears, which means that the creditors own Bank of America, not the shareholders (owners).

    Everyone wants to be the owner/operator. Except for the Jews. They want to be the creditors who have superior legal status over the debt-addicted owners.

  • William Winter Nesbitt This just went waaaaay left. I knew i shoulda stayed away. Before it was oppression to buy black now he has no opinion. Im out for real
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn DeTravius, I get that you were focused on one thing and I launched in to a tangent. So…re ” Do we get rid of “buy local” and/or “buy American” too?”

    Not at all what I was saying.

    re ” Are you suggesting that Jewish people in the USA dont send money back to Israel, Japanese back to Japan Mexicans dont send money back to Mexico, Nigerians back to Nigeria, etc.?”

    Still no.

    Re “Also how is the oppressed suppose to overcome their economic oppression if they are doing business with those who already have the money and/or no interest in their well being?”

    The point I raised was ” how is the oppressed suppose to overcome their economic oppression if they are *NOT* doing business with those who already have the money?”

    That was all.

  • DeTravius Bethea Doesn’t it always go left! Lmao!
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn William, I did not say anything about “buy black.” Read it again if you care.A few people mentioned “consumerism” and “saving.” That could be a good thing, right? Maybe the issue is not from whom to buy, but what and when!?!?!

    Buy black, work black, sell black. That’s all fine.

    Also, buy non-black, work non-black, and sell non-black. If the interest is wealth, the actions are simple. If the interest is something else, so be it.

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn William, I just read another comment of yours. You are talking of what I call conservatism. I appreciate your interest, but I am questioning your conclusions/your logic.*IF* trading within the village was satisfactory, then great. In anthropology, when we look at the traditional Hopi village or the Masai village or the Eskimo village and say “look how they only trade within their village,” we tend to find that those villages are among the LEAST wealthy.

    However, closer to your point, if the NET flow of wealth is away from a village, that can be a temporary thing (and a temporary village). In Arizona, we call that a ghost town.

  • William Winter Nesbitt You gave a whole example with blind native women and said it was shaming and vilifying. But I will let you slide. You are new around these parts.
  • William Winter Nesbitt Yeah you definitely missed the entire point of this post.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn William, there are a few simple points: saving money CAN be good. Doing business with your associates can be VERY good- like I might offer to hire my wife or my son or my nephew… before I put an ad in a newspaper. (Similarly, why should I pay someone else rent if I could pay rent for a similar place to MY mom or My uncle?)I’m intentionally de-emphasizing the black issue, as you may have noticed. You would not see me as black. My African ancestry is not through the US but is “caribbean” and “mulatto,” so the “culture of American blackness” is not “my area.” Relative to where my African ancestry is from (like in the Caribbean and in Africa), you “african americans” in the US are quite rich on the whole.

    So, I’ve lived in places where the native americans got federal benefits monthly and often went on huge spending binges (drinking, gambling, etc) right after that. It was almost like they were uncomfortable storing money- like they would be targets for theft if they had cash. They were “liquid money” to local businesses (and probably still are).

    But so what? If a native american person was interested in being a BUSINESS PARTNER with me, I would recommend that it not be a priority to them what “their community” was doing.

    Imagine that I said this:

    “Americans borrow too much. They have too much debt. They have huge mortgages and $30,000 auto loans. They need to earn more, save more, spend less, and borrow less.”

    That itself might not be “shaming.” How about this: “You people are ignorant debt whores to me. Those predatory lenders are predatory and you are their ignorant prey and you should be guilty and ashamed for what your community is doing to itself (by cooperating enthusiastically with the parasitic predators).” That, you might agree, is shaming. It is vilifying the oppressed community.

  • William Winter Nesbitt Point taken. For me it is impossible to de emphasize black in this context. Giving away almost immediately the fruits of your earnings to those outside your community (not trade but consumerism) is foolhardy and worthy of shame. Savings is good but intra community commerce is better given historical and present circumstance. Cultures exert peer pressure, peer pressure against subservient consumerism is a positive thing for blacks specifically. Not speaking on other folks.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn We probably agree on most of the details, William. However, if some “outsider” came to me and told me that I need to “be true to my Cuban roots,” I would probably blow them off… or maybe even display a large dose of animosity toward them.If I get a check and I cash it at a check-cashing place owned by a blind Native American Woman (that is what we all meant by “Indian,” right- native?), how would I even know who owns it? I only see the staff at the counter. I prefer cashing my check to trying to eat it. I cash it wherever I cash it.

    It’s my business where I cash my check (or if I do). It’s also my business what I do with the cash next.

    However, social pressure is another issue and that depends on context. Harlem is not Atlanta, which is not New Orleans or Mobile… and none of those are Denver. The “black man” in Denver may not even have the “black consciousness” that other people would have. The “black man” stationed with the US military in Japan or in Rio De Janeiro (Brazil) might have some kind of “black consciousness,” but it could very different from yours, William.

    If you can market your business with very precise targeting and thrive from customers in a particular group, that is valuable. I’m not “blue collar,” but most of my clients are. I did not plan it that way. They had money to spend and wanted what I was selling.

    If I owned a check-cashing store and someone came in to do business there, which races should I reject? I have no issue with where you spend your money or what you preach to “your community.” However, the more isolationist you are, the less we might talk.

    The Amish are extremely isolationist, but they still sell to “everyone.” My proposal is that people reading this, by which I mean you, whoever you are, could benefit from relaxing any reactive isolationism and opening to cold, rational realism. However, there can also be a value to reactive isolationism.

    “Black-on-black consumerism” is not a solution to consumerism, but a variation of it. If you are interested in promoting economic literacy in general and promoting it to certain people in particular, great. Then we might have something to talk about.

    If a debtor has a $300,000 mortgage on a property that has plunged in value to $200,000, how much does it matter if the bank is owned by blacks or greens or women or gays? Consumerism is a symptom.

  • William Winter Nesbitt Cubans in America are better off the blacks in America. Moreover, are you familiar with Calle Ocho in Miami. Cubans banded together. Again, given context I am highly concerned with intraracial commerce as it relates to my people. The status quo is largely extraracial commerce. This is folly. Anything that says intrablack commerce is unecessary i regard skeptically.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn To William, re”are you familiar with Calle Ocho in Miami.”

    No. An “ethnic” cuban in South Florida is a very different thing from me in Arizona (or a “black” person in Cuba).

    My comparison, which you may have missed, was between “blacks” in Cuba and “blacks” in, for example, Atlanta. The analogy that I am offering you as something “outside” of your automatic frame of reference is… what if someone came to a black person in Cuba and said “you should not cash your check at the check-cashing business owned by Sammy Davis Jr. because he is a Jew and Jews were the primary slavetraders and yada yada yada yada?”

    It is “guilt-tripping.” It’s like this: “Don’t do business with Arabs or Indians or Koreans because they are not Cuban!” “Don’t do business with Walmart because they sell products assembled by Communists in child labor camps!” That is guilt-tripping!

    Is it “good for community unity?” Maybe. Is it good for me to only do business with Cubans in Arizona between the ages of __ & ___? Eventually, isolationism is absurd.

    If you want to promote a DEGREE of isolationism, so be it. Isolationist consumerism is not the solution to consumerism.

    This is not guilt-tripping: “Do business with me because I will provide you better quality at a better rate, plus I am married to your second cousin and our kids are on the same softball team.” How it is that I happen to be talking to someone is about networking. But I am not going to buy something from someone unless I value what they are selling… even if they are a Cuban in Arizona.

  • Erika Inocencio Is he losing or are we? I agree with him
  • William Winter Nesbitt We have different views on the need for community building. That is cool. There is almost zero degree of “isolationism” at present. Economic cooperation, a better term for what I suggest, is a far way off from “guilt tripping”. But how is the status quo working for what in Anerica are called “black people”?
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn William, arguing about the status quo is not an issue for me. I appreciate that “our system” systematically promotes inequality- in somewhat unique ways from how other systems promote other forms of inequality- like in Cuba.If you want to network with a select group of people to promote your mutual interests, great. You can use whatever standards of selection appeal to you.

    We can moan that “the evil ones” have betrayed “our community.” We can say that “native americAns have sabotaged their own community” or “the plight of modern day Cubans is because of the naïveté of those Cubans.”

    I call it being ashamed. It does not sound to me like “self-respect” or “dignity” or “responsibility”. If I was “in your select group,” it would not appeal to ME.

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