Posts Tagged ‘shame’

song: scared and brave

July 29, 2015

He dreamed that he would be the savior
of all the people who thought that they were not worthy of love
He would convince them, or maybe trick them
if only he could just find the right ones
then he would say
It could be good for you to take some time to be afraid
you learned that fear was not o kay you learned shame
and shame is fine for hiding tears until you’re safe
but then you can just check for threats be scared and brave

I know you might have shut down certain emotions because you learned they were not safe to display
don’t show your anger, don’t show your fear, don’t show your grief, don’t show your tears
Or we will shame you or we will hate you or we will tease you all night and all day
you’ll need to earn love you won’t deserve love you have to do certain things in exchange

But how’d it all start? Who is deserving? Did Santa say you’re better than the rest?
Is it just karma? Who is at fault? Weren’t you born an expert on social finesse?

then he would say
It could be good for you to take some time to be afraid
you learned that it was not o kay you learned shame
and shame is fine for hiding tears until you’re safe
but then you can just check for threats be scared and brave

The programming of social anxiety and perfectionism

July 18, 2015

A child is programmed with ideals of behavior, including how they should speak. This programming is basically universal (just a matter of modeling others, really).

Sometimes the ideals (or patterns of behavior) are recognized as just being ideals (or patterns). Other times the presentation is more like this: “Today, class we will worship a list about how people should be and next will be a list of how people should not be.”


Sometimes, there is a complex context of intimidation and bribery and shame, like with the typical deceptions used regarding Santa Claus. Obedience is rewarded. Disobedience is punished. That is universal, too, but the deception / programming of confusion is not universal.

A simpler context would be overt bribery and intimidation with no deception and no social shaming (like just physical confinement or inflicting of pain, similar to how people typically train dogs). There is no confusing guilt-tripping of “you deserve this because you are a ___ person.” With “straight-forward” conditioning, the focus instead is on behavior: certain behaviors are rewarded and others are punished.

With “the cultivating of criminals,” there is a lot of reverse psychology and programming of identifying with a persona / label, like a huge billboard that says “only losers USE DRUGS.” Which drugs? All drugs? Prescription drugs, too?

Social anxiety is cultivated. Mental illness is cultivated. Criminal activity is cultivated. Political revolutionaries are cultivated.

It is black magic/ government witchcraft / cursing the victims of the oppressive system. Political correctness is programmed. Coercion is the central religion of the global empire declared by the Prophet Noah. However, shame is the key to the efficiency of the warfare (as psychological warfare).

So, in the case of inconsistent methods of conditioning, where punishments and rewards are inconsistently delivered, that can lead to confusion and distress. This was established by the researcher Pavlov who trained dogs to salivate at the sound of a bell (whether or not food was provided along with the ringing of the bell). The dogs eventually confuse the sound of the bell with the possibility of a “reward” (food). They are programmed with what we might call an “associative disorder” (as distinct from proper associations or no associations at all, called “disassociative” disorders).

Next, back to the human child, if there is a background of distress to the programming, then the ideals are not just ideals, but develop in to dogma or idealism. The child might be jealous of others who get rewards without adhering to the child’s own programmed ideals. The envy is natural, but that can lead to grieving grievances like “Those people are not playing by my rules, so they should not ___!!!” (That is an example of hysteria.)

Instead of just noticing that familiar, learned rules are not universal rules, there is a distress of repressed frustration surging out. “I am disappointed by my own results, but quietly disappointed because I am too intimidated to be vocal about it, and so now to see those people do well while I am playing by the rules brings me to envy, then frustration, resentment, and contempt.”

To have envy and then curiosity would be adaptive. However, social programming typically shames the youth for displaying envy or curiosity (which is the biggest threat to dogma and thus must be most severely repressed). So, the youthful rule-follower complains that their own perfect actions are not satisfying them.

Their obedient perfectionism is not getting rewarded as advertised. Not only is the Santa story a deception used by the socially-mature to manipulate the gullible, but it is the only deception ever used by any culture.


Ok, I was kidding there of course. I got distracted while I was typing.

The perfectionist eventually witnesses the elite getting massive corporate subsidies and says “we need to reform the system so that it either is not a massive redistribution from the taxpaying human resources to the elite… or it is a MORE PERFECT system of inequitable redistribution based on coercion / extortion.” The point is that “they need to follow THESE rules.” Then, the different groups of perfectionists oppose each other, just like they have been programmed.

That is hysteria. The hypocritical form of that hysteria would be “the only rule is that all rules are wrong.”


Learning would be “I realize that my sacred rules are no longer relevant (if they ever were). I observe a contrast between my presumptions and my observations and I humbly refine my presumptions (or discard them) and I open myself to new presumptions with greater precision.”

“Why did God create shaming / ideas of sin?”

June 22, 2015

(This dialogue makes sense if you start at my first comment, though I will include the whole thing here.)

TD:

Here’s how I see it:

God is unconditional love.

We are all God.

The reason God is unconditional love is because God is everything.

Everything that can follow I AM, said by anyone or anything anywhere or anywhen is God.

I think that the way that works out is that everyone is completely unique, and they are the way that they are, so that I can be the way that I am.

Our diversity is what makes us so beautiful, and our diversity is based on every single thing that God has thus far to this moment (which is eternal, and ever expanding) conceived to follow I AM.

God recognizes that everything that can be conceived of is a part of that whole that is God, and realizes that God could not be, if everything could not.

Through unconditionally loving everyone for their differences, God is unconditionally loving the Self, and that is why shame is considered to be the original and only sin.

Because there is no part of God that is not also God, and there is no instinct or action that we make that can be considered to be shameful, because God is the one that put it there.

I could go on, but it would only even more redundant

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn So why did God “make” the social experience of shame?
    Like · Reply · 1 · 3 hrs
  • Thyris Discordia Because God felt shame at some point and is beginning to grow out of it smile emoticon
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Shaming is a social behavior involving the communication of a threat (the promotion of anxiety and blind compliance). Why are adult women in many cultures shamed for showing their nipples in public (or even showing their face)? Because exposure can be disruptive.

    a few decades back when thong bathing suits first appeared, Florida passed a law that roadside fruit vendors could not put a lady in a tiny g-string on the side of the road to wave at drivers. Why? Too many car crashes.

  • Thyris Discordia Lol that’s ridiculous. It wouldn’t be distracting if it wasn’t rare. It’s rare because of the original sin
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Shaming can promote social order / stability.
  • Thyris Discordia Wow….
    No.

    Just

    No.

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn There is also a common pattern that small towns will put in a traffic light at bad intersections after someone DIES in a car wreck at that intersection. There can be lots of collisions there, but no light will be put in. One fatality and suddenly people get ashamed of resisting the light (which they already knew was justified).
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Social shaming is a behavioral innovation of high-density populations. There are many specific forms of it (what gets shamed), but the basic existence of shaming is basically universal.

    Primitive tribes are ashamed about less things and different things, like the way that a restaurant throws away food in the U.S. Might be considered shameful in a primitive tribe. Or Being unmarried and childless but already 15 years old.

  • Thyris Discordia Fatalities are choices. People don’t need to be controlled the way you are saying.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn You can argue over what needs to be. Shaming is used to influence behavior.
    • Thyris Discordia And influencing behavior is controlling people. I don’t misunderstand you, I only find your view on this to be wrong. I understand you just fine. You think shame is useful which means you still experience it, which means you’ve not yet accepted all of See More
    • J R Fibonacci Hunn Why do you care? If I desire to suppress certain other desires (in myself), so what?

      Ironically, you might review what is written here and notice that I accept shame fully. You may the one who is ashamed of shame.

    • Thyris Discordia I’m shameless tongue emoticon you’ve tried this trick on me before and it didn’t work then either lol.

      shame has had a good run of it. 13,000 years give or take a couple decades, there’s much more beyond it.

      People can do whatever they want, and need no interference from you or from me or from “society” and they will anyway.

      So it is better to just allow them to do what they will without trying to remove that from them.

    • J R Fibonacci Hunn To make up categories of “better and worse” is your way of shaming / influencing behavior. I accept that.
    • J R Fibonacci Hunn You seem ungrateful for God’s creation of shame. You seem to reject it as “a mistake.” I simply think that is hilarious. The fact that I may have done the same thing does not make it less hilarious. After all, God is also the one creating all of the rejection and resentment and so on.
    • Thyris Discordia I do see what you’re saying, and it is a form of clinging to old ideals.
  • Thyris Discordia And influencing behavior is wrong.
  • Thyris Discordia I don’t say that about many things. But free will is the only natural law as far as I know
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn You can shame others for attempting to influence behavior, but that could also be an attempt to influence behavior. When I go to a roadside fruit stand and offer to pay $4 for however many oranges, that is influencing behavior. I am “voting” for the seller to not only hand me a bunch oranges and then let me leave without pulling a gun on me (because I paid the price asked), but I am also indirectly voting for them to go and gather more oranges to sell another day.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn So gravity and electromagnetism are no longer natural laws, eh? wink emoticon
    Like · Reply · 1 · 29 mins
  • Thyris Discordia Duh. Quantum physics proved that like…50, I wanna say, years ago? But people are only just beginning to take that field seriously.
    • J R Fibonacci Hunn The fact that people can influence how electromagnetic charge disperses is just influencing the behavior of an electromagnetic charge using something called “free will.” The entire idea of free will is based on influencing one’s own behavior and/or the behavior of others.
    • J R Fibonacci Hunn
      Write a reply…
       
  • Thyris Discordia Relativity and all that jazz

 

What is the best way to shame others for shaming others the wrong way?

June 6, 2015

JK wrote: “Unfortunately we live in a world where profits come before integrity….”

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn “Integrity” is just a PR spin to promote profits / competitive advantage. The masses are programmed to obsess over integrity and experience a type of anxiety called guilt. Deception is central to governments and many big businesses.
    Like · Reply · 1 · 16 hrs · Edited
    • Jaguar Kukulcan Somehow the masses are blind to the staggering lack of integrity in their governments and big business. There is none so blind as s/he he will not see eh . . .
      Like · 1 · 14 hrs

    • J R Fibonacci Hunn Schools and media program the masses to presume that integrity is important to governments (and churches etc). The indoctrination can be quite misleading. Further, it is rare for someone to ask exactly how / when is integrity important.In the U.S., a

      military officer named Oliver north is famous for lying to the government, then getting convicted in a criminal court, and then getting pardoned by the U.S. President. Governments regulate crime. They do not prevent it and they could not if they tried. Governments define crime (and generally the same activities that governments perform would be punished as criminal if performed by private citizens… Well, unless you are close friends with the president…).

      Like · 1 · 13 hrs · Edited

    • Jaguar Kukulcan Agreed! AND . . . who amongst us was taught at home to have real integrity? Even the best parents were lying to their kids at times. And encouraged their kids to lie too even in small ways. Who wants their kid to respond to a neighbours question “how are you?” with “I’m pissed off that I’ve got a cold and I’m coughing up great gobs of gunk” hahaha We say “I’m fine thanks, how are you?” Mundane example but points to the way we legitimise the lies we tell to ourselves and others . . .
    • J R Fibonacci Hunn Wait… Are you saying that Santa Claus did not bring me those presents and my parents intentionally deceived me about it?
      Like · 1 · 1 hr
    • J R Fibonacci Hunn With language, there are lies, which means intentionally deceiving. The bigger issues may be the things that my parents actually believed and told me were true, but my parents were wrong about even though totally sincere.
      Like · 1 · 1 hr · Edited

    • J R Fibonacci Hunn Some people condemn lying. Some people punish it with perjury laws.In other cases, honesty is punished. For instance, some military officers are fired (or worse) for mentioning details that the social system prefers to be kept secret.

      Like · 1 · 1 hr

    • J R Fibonacci Hunn Lying is legitimate. Punishing lying (shaming it or criminalizing it) is also legitimate. Punishing honesty is also legitimate.The one who thinks that legitimacy is anything more than a perception (usually involving the approval of a particular social institution) may be “lying to themselves.” Those who have been trained to worship delusions hysterically can be categorized as “pretty much everyone.”

    • hahaha shocking isn’t it (about Santa)

      It’s a big subject for sure! And I agree with you!

      I love this quote by Don Miguel Ruiz:
      “I was a perfect little child. I was innocent, and I ate the lie that I am not what I should be. I believed that I would have to work hard to become what I should be. This is how I learned to create my story, and because I had faith in the story, the story became truth for me. And the story, even if it is full of lies, is perfect. It is wonderful and beautiful. The story is not right or wrong or good or bad – it’s just a story, that’s all. But with awareness, we can change the story. Step by step, we can return to the truth.”
    • J R Fibonacci Hunn Only in language are there such concepts as perfection and imperfection. If someone is interested in truth, perhaps they will relax the common hysteria about language.Before language, there was nothing but truth. To look to language as the pathway to truth is delusional.

    • J R Fibonacci Hunn Many delusions are programmed socially. Hysteria and paranoia and social anxiety are the foundations of modern civilized society. Social anxiety is instrumental to an orderly society. People must be interested in learning the rules of society and then be anxious about following those rules, right? (Or about keeping any violations of the rules discrete.)“What should be is more important than what is” is a fundamental hysteria. What should be is socially programmed using the language of hysteria.

      How society should be is a hysterical idea. Notice the hysteria with which people use that kind of statement.

      “How I should be” is the foundation of shame. In hysteria, I can relate to others as if my expectations are holy and as if some aspects of their experience could be an insult to me (a threat to the surfacing of my inner hysteria and paranoia), so I resent and condemn and gather with like-minded people to complain about all the humans who I find the most insulting (threatening).

    • J R Fibonacci Hunn Is it good for a parent to intentionally discipline their child by shaming them? It is Almost inevitable. Embarrassment is a normal experience. To intentionally embarrass someone is also very common.My commentary is that to intentionally shame is mu

      ch better than to do it without knowing one is doing it. To shame others can be effective. It is “nothing to be ashamed of.”

      However, what could be more shameful in a religion of hysteria but to intentionally promote hysteria and shame and paranoia in another? Good thing that the Santa Claus thing does not promote paranoia because promoting paranoia could never be effective at influencing the behavior of children (or adults), right?

      why are we told “what should not be?” To hide certain parts of reality from us. We are programmed to experience shame and outrage whenever we notice something that we are told should not be. Eventually, that leads to us “going blind” to many of the basic realities of how our society works (for we have been told how society should work, which also is an indoctrination method for distracting us from reality with slogans to worship). I got an A in my government class because I memorized all the political slogans in the textbook and repeated them back on the test. I have been rewarded for copying the government-approved political slogan and then repeating it and calling it “the truth” on a true or false test.

      Of course, questioning the holy truth as taught in the sacred school of our religion is a shameful thing to do and will result in getting detention or getting expelled. Our empire is the most holy because it condemns imperialism as something that should not be.

  • Doc Murdoch we need a revolution….
    Like · Reply · 27 mins 

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Ah, yes, Doc reminds me of the hysterical slogan of the revolucion eternale party from Mexico. No matter how life is, we must hysterically relate to it as something that we must change so as to save our children from reality. Now we just have to agonize and exhaust ourselves over figuring out exactly which way to rebel, since obviously most of the people who promote a revolution are saying hysterical things about what kind of revolution we need. It sure is a good thing that Our group of holy snobs is nothing like those naive, self-righteous herds.

    Save the children from Santa Claus! Deception is shameful! Hysteria must be prevented by panicking over which form of hysteria is the least hysterical!

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Those who are ashamed of an empire will insist passionately on their favorite reform campaign to make the empire less imperialistic. Who programmed them to be ashamed of certain details of imperialism? 😉

 

Empires of privilege and shaming

March 8, 2015

[In reply to the above image….] Repressed envy often leads to contempt. Clear perception requires a releasing of repressions (a welcoming of psychological “shadows”).

 
Modern governments are the foundation of historical extremes of inequality and privilege. Private property rights (including property lines / trespassing rules) are enforced by governments (to keep the poor away from the assets of the rich). Likewise, physical borders are also enforced by governments (to keep some people in or out… or even most people).
 
The primary purpose of governments could be to systematically promote inequitable redistributions of wealth. In order to further that goal (to promote compliance), they may also organize curriculums of ritual indoctrination to promote delusional idealism in the masses about the basic function of governments.
 
When I say governments, I mean all institutions for the governing of human resources, so that includes mainstream churches and mass media. Court systems and their military units (“cops,” etc) are essential to public compliance, but the “invisible” psychological influences can vastly increase the efficiency of the coercion programs of the military units.
 
Here is the formula for irrational hysterias indoctrinated in hundreds of regional branches of the global empire: “There is a specific way that life should be (and that is not the way that life is). For instance, governments should promote equality… because people should unconditionally love everyone all of the time and should not ever shame each other.”
 
Here is the formula for shame: “There is a specific way that people should be, but that is not the way that people are (including however you personally are).” By naively worshiping a delusional ideal of perfectionism, the masses will practice “perpetual” agonizing over how to stop being so human. You could also call this a formula for denial or repression or the formation of “shadows.”
 
Someone may project their biases (envy, contempt) by saying “People should not impoverish the nation by hoarding cash pathologically.” A company called Apple is famous for having a large amount of cash reserves and a low amount of total debt. Companies that “recently” filed bankruptcy for lack of “hoarding cash pathologically” include K-mart, AIG, Merrill Lynch, Enron, MCI- Worldcom, Washington Mutual, and US Air. Shame on Apple for hoarding, right? 😉

Making friends with the hysterias of confusion, grief, shame, & blame

November 19, 2014

In the course of human events, people may notice preferences and even expectations. One of the most common ways to notice the presence of an expectation is when something else happens other than what was expected.

In contrast, when nothing is expected and something unfamiliar happens, there may be surprise and curiosity and, if there is much interest, learning. But when something is expected and does not happen, that can be quite different.

Instead of ignorance simply being replaced with the new stimulus or perception, when there is already an expectation, that is quite distinct from ignorance. The expectation implies that there is already interest. (If someone is not interested in something, then why form an expectation about it?)

Whenever an expectation is violated (which is inevitable), then there can be confusion. Note that confusion cannot arise without a pre-existing expectation that is erroneous. Total ignorance can lead to surprise, but not to confusion. (Surprises can be scary or fun or many other things.)

Only expectation can lead to confusion: “something is not how I expected it and I do not know why.” When there is an expectation plus an awareness of the violation of some expectation but no further clarity yet, that is called confusion. Someone may not even know which expectation has been violated.

That confusion can lead to seeking clarification and the refining of the expectations. However, that confusion can also lead in to a very distinct pathway, which we will briefly explore now.

I expect something. Something else happens. I am confused. (In other words, I notice that I was already confused about what would happen and then later I suddenly recognized my own prior confusion / erroneous expectation.)

But what next? How do I relate to my own confusion (my error / inaccuracy)? Is it okay to experience occasional confusion? Is it “to be expected?”

Is it ever overwhelming? Is it ever terrifying? Is it ever embarrassing?

Sometimes, an experience of confusion (from an unfulfilled expectation or violated expectation) may lead to embarrassment. Embarrassment is related to shame. That means that I experience fear about one or more other people’s perceptions of me and their behavioral reactions to me (such as violent attack, social shunning, or other punishments).

What next then? Do I withdraw (flee)? What if that simple response to stress is not available? How else could I promote safety?

Do I fight (to promote safety)? Do I freeze (to promote safety)? Do I fake (to promote safety)?

A common reflex for someone who is confused (and then embarrassed about it) is to cast blame. Blame can have an element of antagonism (as in a fight response to the fear / shame).

Blame is a type of complaint: “the only reason that ___ is because the weather is so unusually ______!”

That is basically a request for attention and sympathy. So is this: “the only reason that ______ is because of whoever I blame for this confusing and embarrassing development… and who I blame is ___!”

That is a totally understandable reaction. “I am so confused by the results of my actions that I am embarrassed and so in an effort to attract attention and sympathy and perhaps even assistance, I am blaming ________!”

“Other people should be more _____!”

“I should not have to ______!”

“Do you want to know what I think of that person? ______ is just such a ______!”

Now that I have presented some common patterns in language, you may notice that your behavior may have included some of these statements. (If so, then you are probably over the age of 2.) In fact, you may have noticed quite a few other people who are also over the age of 2, right?

To review, people (by the age of 2) will form expectations and then inevitably some of those get violated and so then people occasionally get confused (and perhaps ashamed about being socially witnessed as confused). That shame can lead to them casting blame.

Blame is a classic coping mechanism in the stages of grieving / learning. Blame can be a form of denial (as in a distraction from the underlying embarrassment or the underlying expectation that was not fulfilled).

Further, blame can lead to resentment, antagonigm, contempt, and lots of arguing: “I think that who is really to blame is not ____, but instead is __________. How can you even be so hysterical to suggest that _______ or that ________? You might as well be saying that _____?!?!?”

All of that is called hysteria. It is still a type of fear and a subset of shame. It is a defense mechanism in the realm of “I do not yet want to simply admit that I expected ________ and instead what actually happened was ______.”

So, how do people relate to the reality that expectations exist and can be violated? What about that confusion can arise, then embarrassment? What about that hysterical blame can arise and then hysterical defenses of the hysterical blame?

What about that sometime around the age of 2, most people develop the capacity to engage in arguments that may appear silly to outsiders? What about that some people continue those arguments for decades, even frequently triggering resentment and contempt so as to justify withdrawal from at least one person who is so unpredictable “because I refuse to update my own expectations in accord with their actual behaviors? I mean… why should I have to!?!?”

Or, maybe someone just seems too erratic for me at a particular time. Maybe my interest in them is not great enough to continue interacting with them because I am not ready to learn that fast. Maybe interacting with them is so challenging to my pre-existing expectations that I can only tolerate them in small doses. “That pesky pest is so annoying!”

If was simply bored, I would not be interested enough to argue, would I? People only argue for decades about things that interest them in some way. Further, people only argue with someone for decades if that other person interests them in some way.

How do I relate to people (such as 2 year-olds) who may on occassion experience confusion, shame, blame, and so on? Do I withdraw from them because they are manifesting a behavioral pattern that I have been repressing? Do I push them away with criticisms and condescension?

If I have been repressing shame, then wouldn’t I flee from any display of shame that scares me? Wouldn’t I flee from anything that scares me? If what scares me is the display of shame, would I flee from whatever scares me?

Further, if for someone reason I was not successful in fleeing, then wouldn’t I attempt to push away the perceived source of stress? Wouldn’t I increase my own stress hormones and go from flight mode to fight mode?

The point is that hysteria is a natural part of life. Some of them last only briefly and some can last decades or even centuries.

Hysteria is a type of fear and the sub-types of hysteria can include grief (a fear about how someone will adapt to some loss or absence) as well as shame (a fear of imagined future punishments) and blame. Blame, when expressed, can lead to compensation and apology and so on. Or blame can lead to other outcomes.

Consider the idea that “____ simply should not exist.” That may already be a form of distressed hysteria, right?

What is so frightening about the possible existence of something to someone that they should say it should not exist? What shames are they attempting to hide, if any?

“Hysteria should not exist! How can all these people still act like 2 year-olds? I mean, seriously, how come they don’t have totally accurate expectations about reality like I do? This is the most frustrating thing ever!”

“I really just don’t understand how all of these people don’t have totally accurate expectations like I do? It’s like they are just freaking out over unfulfilled expectations and that is not what I expected and it is totally freaking me out!?!?!”

“Yeah, that was totally weird, isn’t it? Hey, come jump on this bed with me!”

Making friends with fear and even… shame!

September 24, 2014

JD wrote:

Guilt, shame and fear are the lowest vibrations; joy and excitement, compassion and concern, these are high vibrations — Quite simply, change your complex frequencies and vibrations, you are born a Master of this ability as cocreator.

  • 19 people like this.
  • Clare Kent Quick question you didnt cover anger because with that comes passion, emotion, feelings. I understand the intent is there but if you’re angry for the right reasons – Is that a high or low vibration? When I am truly angry my intent and virations seems stronger than any other point.
  • Star Skittles anger is a product of fear.
  • Star Skittles we are fixed on the physical plane, which disables us from seeing the unseen vibrational interactions.
  • Clare Kent Hmmm maybe but I don’t think its always the case. I will have a think about this tonight, connect some dots. Thanks skittles.
    9 hrs · Like · 1
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn The use of terms like “low” and “high” are arbitrary preferences. Of course people prefer experiences of gratitude and joy over terror or frustration.The one who fears shame is still a slave, even if joyful or grateful in a moment. The one who embra

    ces shame will be humbled / humiliated… Which can produce the most precious learning.And the faith that is required involves immense courage. Most people do not have it. They will chase joy and “high vibrations” out of fear (for in fact it is paranoia that drives their frightened chase for higher vibrations). They will eventually encounter frustration and exhaustion, which is a very valuable lesson (though they may resist learning for quite awhile).

    Embracing shame, Grace also arises… Through the relaxing of the shames programmed by schools and in culture (including shames about human bodies). Modesty develops after the terror of idealism relaxes.

    By the way, a message like “just think positive and raise your vibrations” does have some value. However, if people relate to that idea / “method” as an affirmation that is a “cure-all,” that is idealism.

    the idea that people “should not feel how they feel” is shaming / psychological warfare. If circumstances produce the result of a child screaming in terror, that is just a momentary behavior. There is no need to shame the child for “low vibrations” or be aloof and obsess about “high vibrations.”

    I am not just talking theory here. I have made some “mistakes” as a parent and slowly or quickly I have learned from them.

  • Chaffee Cline to release guilt shame and fear… one has to be a “forgiveness warrior” and in a nanosecond in any situation…with any person…and most importantly is to forgive self and others… past, present and future easily and effortlessly with calm and compassion…. here and now… “To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.”
    1 hr · Edited · Like · 1
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Chaffee, you speak as if shame is primarily a conscious process. Shame is all about the internal suppression of consciousness.How does shame relax? With the opening of chronic physical tensions (and bodily pain), panicked breathing, terrified confus

    ion, and no immediate sense of a trigger.Of course, there is also the issue of withdrawing any prior condemnation of the past. However, that is not “forgiving people for doing wrong.” That is completely releasing any idealism about how the past should have been (or should not have been). Most people are terrified of shame and retreat in to higher vibrations … Which allows them to begin relaxing.

    But their retreat from shame is not relaxing it. That is a coping mechanism to decrease the addition of new layers of shame.

    That is an important step. However, it is a baby step. Withdrawing from shame In fear is wise at a particular stage but is a *very* long way from the end of the path.

  • Clare Kent These three are all society/ religion made emotions, if you don’t judge there is no shame or guilt. I eliminated guilt and shame from me, yeah I made mistakes but who hasn’t. I won’t be held to ransom by an emotion or society for slight errors of judgement. I’m not saying I don’t feel those but they’re weak and not something I cling to anymore. Fear is something I have worked on these past six months by facing them head on.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn It is one thing to refrain from displaying our condemnation of some behavior or some person. It is an entirely different issue as to whether there is a sense of repulsion or not. Is there is an inner terror or a disturbance of a certain kind, that could be called “shame.”
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn If anything “disgusts” me, that is a real emotion. If I have contempt for anything, that is also real.Those who are ashamed of *any* emotion are still “slaves.” Those who pretend not to be slaves are… many. Such is the nature of shame!

  • Clare Kent Shame is not a real emotion, in some societies it is instilled, for instance tribal women have no worries about exposing their breasts in public,nobody is repulsed however do this in any major city and you’ll see the shame and repulsion,and the guilt instilled into you for doing so. Or the fact certain places monkey brains and cats are eaten, imagine that in your local town? They’d be outrage. Its what’s programmed in to you through the society you belong and its done in childhood. Where one thing is acceptable and normal somewhere, it isn’t so elsewhere. I am not saying I’m not repulsed by certain things because I find some cultural differences absolutely horrific.
  • Clare Kent I don’t believe we should be held ransom by any emotion be it guilt,shame,love of fear. Finding balance is really hard but I’m working on it.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn I see what you mean now by “real,” Clare. Shame is always social.In a state of alarm, there are two main alternatives: flight (the natural #1 preference) or fight. Next is “freeze.”

    Shame is a type of “freezing.” It has a very specific set of physical tensions, such as “holding back” and holding your tongue.”

    Is all shame cultural? Close enough…. but a pet can display what would be called shame. So can a wild animal.

    In this image, one wolf has a head kept low as a sign of submission to the alpha male. You can say “shame is not real,” but saying that does not alter the reality of the various patterns of BEHAVIOR. Note that I am referencing emotions as neurological patterns of ACTIVITY.

    http://s2.wallippo.com/…/alpha-male…

    S2.WALLIPPO.COM

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn There is a fourth type of fear (besides fight, flight, and freeze). I called it “faking.” That includes any behavior to distract others from fear.Mixing aspects of “flight” and faking” would be behaviors to divert ourselves from perceived triggers of panic, such as a mantra or repeating an affirmation. That CAN be beneficial.

    However, that is not the absence of distress. That is moving the attention away from distress as a temporary coping mechanism.

    If your house is on fire, a mantra will not put out the fire or make it safe. It is fine to use a mantra to calm down a bit. Then, get a fire extinguisher and put out the fire (or leave the building and call 911).

    Fear is healthy. Paranoia and shame about fear is a state of chronic emotional distress. It is getting caught up in a desperate panic of “faking” calm.

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn

    • J R Fibonacci Hunn:
      Clare Kent, thanks for sharing your experience. If I was holding up a chair in one arm and a pitcher full of water in the other hand, and then walking up a stairway backwards, staying balanced would be hard, right?It is much easier to experience balance if you first “empty yourself of luggage.” However, those a nice poetic words that imply that you could do it yourself already.If you are interested in some interaction about how I could help you “set aside some of that old luggage- at least for a moment,” then you are welcome to send me a friend request. Sometimes it is much easier to find balance with someone helping to bring attention to where the energy is currently concentrated.

      2 mins · Like · 1
    • Brenda Lozano Let us not judge our feelings and emotions, much less our reactions! I know that when I judge my feelings, it just creates anxiety, which makes me feel even worse and leads to guilt/shame…as if I am “above” these human experiences and “should know better”. We practice being ourselves everyday, part of inner peace and living in the present moment is acceptance. We have to accept that light casts a shadow, darkness is ok…as a being of light, a Starseed…embracing the shadow does not mean the darkness will swallow you whole…it makes love deeper and stronger. There is only one vibration for me…the Alpha and Omega…everything else is just human/earth experience, always in motion.

      • 7 mins · Unlike · 1

        • J R Fibonacci Hunn To Brenda, to face a place that has been in the shadows is to bring light (consciousness) to it. In some cases, it is useful to do this “with company” … with other people who have already seen what has been hidden in a shadow.The “freezing” of cons

          ciousness to create a blindspot or “shadow” is a healthy coping mechanism… temporarily. If I am not disgusted or disturbed by something, then I can assist others in bringing light (lightness, humor) to it- perhaps especially if I used to be disgusted or ashamed or disturbed by that same shadow.I know how to joke about some shames with tremendous power and familiarity. In other cases, I can offer lightness but not any personal expertise or insight- just curiosity. However, innocent curiosity can be incredibly powerful.


      • Clare Kent Dogs know shame too,but one could argue this is instilled into them. They are intelligent creatures all animals are, just because we don’t understand inside their brains it doesn’t mean they don’t have feelings or understand their society boundaries. Wolves and dogs are pack/ social animals they know within their group what is tolerated. Merrkats display emotions (i loved meerkat manor) and birds that flock do the same, even within other species. I had a very nippy and aggressive african grey, and another Timmi who idolised me. Sadly, Timmi died and the other became top bird, he changed that day to the most living of birds. As for cats ha, they don’t care. I would like to be a cat I always wanted to be an animal psychologist. I studied my birds and it was fascinating. I also think fear is healthy to a certain degree, but we should only use fear when its necessary and not for trivialities, such as fearing what other may say or think, or fear of other’s. Thats unhealthy and it holds you back.
        • J R Fibonacci Hunn Clare, again thank you for sharing your interests and experience. I have a tendency to present contrary ideas to create new openings for conversation. So, keep that in mind when I say….“We should only use fear when…” Clare is not afraid to use it

          ?In an extreme situation, might it be best to refrain from drawing any attention to myself? Might it be best to remain totally silent… to wait… even to suddenly withdraw with no explanation or justification?

          Isn’t caution intelligent sometimes? Isn’t “being afraid of what people will think” intelligent sometimes? Isn’t “being afraid of what people might do as a consequence / in retaliation” sometimes an intelligent consideration?

        • Brenda Lozano J R without being able to explain to you exactly how…I totally understand every word you have shared here! On the same wavelength…absolutely.
        • Clare Kent I know where my demons lie, as I say I am facing those. I do embrace the dark as well as the light. We need to make sure we are balanced correctly and holding onto old stuff and out of date issues is really unnecessary. I think I have come to a point where I realise the person I am, and not who I am told be be. That’s what I am erasing.
          3 mins · Like · 1


        • J R Fibonacci Hunn Clare, if I am conscious of a shame (like if I can admit it as a subject of shame), then it may not be especially powerful of a demon for me. The ones that someone is not aware of as any issue at all can be the most dominant.For instance, with behavi

          ors like alcoholism or gambling addictions, those are coping mechanisms. Those are not the shame. Those are methods for distracting myself from the actual issue of shame.What happens when someone experiences a core shame from which they have been hiding? Trembling, nausea, hyperventilation, etc….

          • Clare Kent I get what you’re saying, but of course one must take into consideration other people but at the same time don’t forget who you are and what you feel is the right thing. I am not afraid of fear, I fear very little these days aside from spiders. I do have worries like we all do, but life has its own way of correcting things eventually. I believe in karma and balance. I haven’t always thought this way, I was a ‘fight’ reactive, I still am to some degree. I like challenges and I do embrace the darkness, and accept the consequences of my own actions. I take responsibility where I am wrong and I fight for what I know is right.
          • J R Fibonacci Hunn Clare, what “I feel is the right thing” is a product of social conditioning. That is not a problem. That is just a fact. “What is right” is dependent on a cultural context or social context. The idea of “inherently right behaviors” is cultural idealism.The *idea* of “who I really am” is also a cultural construct. Who I really I am is simply not an idea at all. Am I afraid of dropping any idea of “who I really am” and learning something new about me… or even evolving in to somehting that I have never been?

            3 mins · Like

            • Clare Kent No. My morals are my own. When I say I know what is right its what I know and feel inside is right that’s not social that’s all me. I know who I am, well I am learning every day. I stopped truly caring what other people said or thought a long time ago. I want to evolve.

              Just now · Like

              • J R Fibonacci Hunn:
                Clare, maybe you stopped caring what *certain* people think or said. In fact, you may still care now what they did say in the past, but you just were repulsed by what they said, so you withdrew for your own health and well-being. Great!Further, I am confident that you would deeply care about what some people think or say.You would give great attention and interest to their words and expressions. However, you now have high standards and people need to earn your admiration or else you might just respect them from a casual distance without any special personal admiration or interest.Of course you will have preferences in regard to caring about the statements of certain people. Do I care what my clients say? Generally, yes… especially if they say, “I think it is time that we pay you even more than we have been so far.” I notice that I have never argued with someone who was offering me a pay raise or a promotion.

              • J R Fibonacci Hunn As for wanting to evolve, you really have no choice. You will evolve!But being curiously attentive to the process certainly can have advantages over not recognizing it or resisting it.

                For anyone who wants more background on this tangent, here’s an article: https://jrfibonacci.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/courage-and-the-four-fears-fight-flight-freeze-and-fake/

              • Clare Kent That’s an interesting article, I read it but I’m not sure I’ve taken it in its still very early here in London. I will read it again later. Thanks for accepting my friend request.
              • Clare Kent I think perhaps I agree with what you said there. Thanks for the conversation, I value your input it has made me think. Now I need some coffee



Fear, shame, and repenting

August 25, 2014

Repenting is simply to admit an instance of fear or being scared that one has been terrified or shamed in to hiding. Repenting does not require communicating with another person. I just notice that it is an instance of terror to say something like “what should not exist is stress hormones which can produce heightened alertness in animals including humans which we can call fright.”


Any rejection of some aspect of “God’s creation” as “a mistake” is arrogant sin. It is shame to say “that should not be.”

 


Further, shame should exist. We know this because it DOES exist. Also, repenting of our shame is simple and easy, but very rare. Immense amounts of energy can be invested in the avoiding of shame.

As for belief, belief does not replace understanding. When understanding is present, then faith is the automatic result (the fruit)… as in a faith that, even without already knowing, one can learn. That is a total contrast to “belief” or “positive thinking.” Those are typically methods that frightened people use to pretend not to be frightenened.

It is fine to be frightened. It is fine to ask for help or explore other new actions because of the motivation of desperation or anxiety. That is intelligent. Fear is intelligent. Even extreme forms of fear like paranoia and shame are intelligent, but they can be very inefficient.


The idea of being attentive to the actual physical experience (of stress or distress) as “the most effective form of repentance” is an important note that you added. Instead of being terrified of a physical experience as “shameful or sinful” because someone else might call it fear, we can recognize that in the lives of many people, we assessed that it was unsafe to display fear openly, so we repressed the display of fear (like in our facial expressions or our gestures). That anxious, ongoing repression of fear is paranoia.

Celebrate fear. Admit past paranoia. Admit any past condemnation of fear as “something that should not be.” That is all trivial and sinful. It does not matter now.

Recognize that there are times to keep one’s physical experience private as well as times when being attentive to one’s physical experience is uniquely valuable. Experience yourself with total respect. You are holy. Your past has always been perfect. You just were intelligent enough to hide elements of your past in shame when you experienced distress.

To be cautious in the midst of animosity is not shameful. It is wisdom. To disengage from trivial antagonisms is courageous.

Any past distress was perfect and holy. Any condemnation of the past was also trivial, sinful, perfect, and holy.

________________________________

The above was  written in response to the following: (published by Hope Johnson here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201647056817143&set=a.1268571653323.37765.1800792202&type=1 )

“For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. This is not a judgment, and it doesn’t mean anyone has done wrong.

Every child is conceived in God’s glory, and birthed into this environment where they are immediately impressed with fear – which is to sin.

Once fear is impressed upon the child mind, mental patterns are formed to continually create different circumstances that trigger the same fearful reactions throughout the lifetime. Every time there is a reaction to fear, sin is repeated, and ego (energy of fear) becomes more prominent as the child progresses through adolescence, adulthood and old age.

As most humans never come to realize that they live through childhood fear, they are like scared little children in that life circumstances…even seemingly adult circumstances like losing a job, home or relationship…trigger the same fearful emotional responses they experienced as a child.

If the child never repents for their sin, they suffer tremendously through the lifetime and especially in old age as their body deteriorates and passes away. This is because the structure of their physical body is made to house fearful concepts, whereby the mind can be easily and frequently hypnotized by evil spirits (fearful thought entities).

This makes repentance very difficult, especially since most religious organizations and spiritually minded people don’t understand it….

So how can one learn to stand firm in God’s glory and repent for their sin when all they know is to respond with fear to life’s circumstances? Through faith that what I’m saying is true, and willingness to pay attention to the messages coming through their own physical body in the moment they are faced with temptation to sin again.

There is no role for self judgment in true repentance…many times the child mind will fall back into its sinful ways…But every time sin is committed with awareness of Truth, factions of evil forces are being met with compassion and thereby dissolved. However, to keep judging oneself for falling is to perpetuate sin and thereby miss the point of repentance.

As one is released from the bondage of sin, wisdom arises in its place, and the child mind comes to recognize that strategies meant to manage fear are no longer useful, and so such childish things are put away….And the child mind is restored to its natural state of carefree, peaceful and compassionate….which is true maturity.

May every child mature in wisdom and be reborn in the Glory of God. Amen!

Repentance is a sincere turning away from sin. Focusing on the messages coming through the physical body in the moment the temptation to sin arises is the most effective form of repentance in my experience.

_________________

 

JR’s response to Hope began as follows and then included all of the above:

Hi Hope. I reject certain phrasing in your message as anti-fear paranoia. However, it is a very important topic and there are some great comments that you made. I invite you to consider a more precise and more empowering phrasing… as follows.

 

 

 

After all of that, Hope replied:

  • Hope: Aloha J R! That’s an interesting interpretation of my words. It’s very generous of you to share your point of view. Mahalo!
  • J R:  Be careful of promoting another religion of exclusion. The excluson of fear is not courage. The exclusion of courage is not maturity. Those who are arrogant and inattentive will, by the glory of God, be humbled.

 

  • Hope: Ok J R! I’ll be very careful not to do that…
  • J R: The glory of God remains with or without sin. Never was an issue. What a relief!Worshiping ideals however can lead to excluding the glory of God… from one’s own direct experience. But that is just temporary, right?

 

How does shame arise?

August 18, 2014

“Responsibility begins with the willingness to be cause in the matter of one’s life. Ultimately, it is a context from which one chooses to live. Responsibility is not burden, fault, praise, blame, credit, shame or guilt. In responsibility, there is no evaluation of good or bad, right or wrong. There is simply what’s so, and your stand.

Being responsible starts with the willingness to deal with a situation from the view of life that you are the generator of what you do, what you have and what you are. That is not the truth. It is a place to stand.

No one can make you responsible, nor can you impose responsibility on another. It is a grace you give yourself – an empowering context that leaves you with a say in the matter of life.”

— Werner Erhard

When it is clear to me that [what Mr. Erhard called] “my stand” is a filter that *organizes* my recognition of “what’s so,” then I recognize my subjectivity as a simple fact. I cannot alter the fact that subjectivity is subjective. Further, the entire idea of wanting to eliminate subjectivity is missing the simplicity of what subjectivity is.

My perspective (at any given moment) is distinct. It is not better or worse than any other perspective. It will change over time.

Of course, it is only relative to a certain kind of perspective or filter that a labeling like “good or bad” arise. Words are all just interpretative labels. What in one culture is called evil or disgusting or disturbing may be common in another culture… or even sacred.

To relate to any element of the past as “how it should not have been” is valid, but totally optional. Personal shame is just a social construct. Why do societies shame individuals and create shyness? In our culture, we can respect that it is essential for an orderly classroom. 6 year-olds do not naturally sit quietly in chairs waiting for the holy curriculum to be delivered, right?

So, we have stories like that of Santa Claus in order to govern the behavior of children. Stories like hell and heaven might also be used to influence behavioral conformity. Through the media (including in advertisements), more stories and messages are used to govern perception and behavior.

We respond to our interpretation of “what’s so,” not to the data itself. We construct meaning from the sensory data. The meaning is not in the data. The meaning is a product of our perspective (or “stand”). That is why the school systems and media are so interested in governing the interpreative models used by the masses.

So our “ability to respond” is a function of our ability to recognize meaningful patterns accurately and quickly. 10 people can hear the same sounds, but if only one of them speaks Spanish, that one is the only one who can identify a precise meaning for those sounds.

All of this is very ancient wisdom. Since ancient times, the “human resources” have been managed using these principles.

Some may say reflexively: “but it should not be like that!” A culture’s propaganda can be very effective at hiding simple facts by programming the masses in “how things should be” (what to presume) and “how things should not be” (what to reject presumptively). “Propaganda should not exist” is a central slogan of idealists.

“Why do we doubt ourselves?”

August 12, 2014

A small child who looks at some big monkey bars and feels doubt or caution is simply intelligent. Doubt is just one assessment of a situation.

Shame is the bigger issue. People who are ashamed of displaying doubt have a dilemma – like because then a bunch of new agers might bash them with guilt about not enough “positive thinking.”

The one who has the courage to welcome doubt is brave. The one who has the courage to welcome shame is humble as well as brave.

The one who is already humble has no fear of being humiliated. That is why the humble can be so much more powerful than those who are trying to defend their ego and protect it from humiliation.

 

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS ADDED LATER:

Consider the idea that “I wish that I never had any self-doubt, especially not now, so why do I have it?” It can be asked in two very different ways. One is simple and curious. It is actually interested in what is meant by “self-doubting.” It is open to learning.

The other way to ask the question is the activity of agonizing (a shameful doubting of one’s self). There may be a sense of rejection (self-rejection).

We can project that on others, sometimes in very “immature” ways: “Robin Williams should not have had any self doubt ever and, because of his negative sins of having self-doubt, we must all ridicule him for being a shame upon humanity.”

There is no learning in progress in that case. There is no curiosity, but only terror and shame. There is a fixation on a particular opinion as “a certainty” (which can be labeled arrogance or fanaticism or idolatry).


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