Posts Tagged ‘naive’

Naive Fools, Courageous Clowns, and Sincerely Hysterical Cowards

December 11, 2014

All humans begin completely naive. They believe what they are told- like about Santa Claus or US history or the idea of a living parasitic demon called cancer that can possess people and kill them.

As for the idea that there is a way to completely “cure” all naïveté, that may also be naive. Presumptions (and expectations) are part of cognitive functioning. Yes, they can lead to disappointment and so on- and eventually will- but that is only a problem for someone who is so unstable (such as economically unstable) that all expression of disappointment is deemed to be “life-threatening.”

We begin as naive fools. Then, some of us may notice that and so then try to fool other naive people in to believing that they are not ever naive (and maybe even never were).

In fact, we can get quite terrified that others may notice that we are naive, because then they might take advantage of us. We throw tantrums about other people’s naïveté. We could call those tantrums “hysteria” (Or even terror or shame or distress or panic or cowardice)… in contrast with the relaxed naïveté of the newborn or infant.

Finally, there is a stage of courage about the simple fact of naïveté. We can be attentive, but we can never cure humanity of naïveté, and any individual that can recognize patterns can on occasion be tricked (fooled, presumptively mistaken). We can be imprecise- but that is distinct from being so hysterically terrified that we construct sincere pretenses in order to attempt to deny any naïveté (or to distract from our own by pointing at someone else’s).

Note that it is also hysterical to say “I should have never been naive so how can I prevent all naivete in the future? It may be possible to withdraw from possible dangers toward safety- like turning off the TV or moving away from “the old gang.”

With courage, we can admit the simple reality of naïveté and admit our fears about being taken advantage of (plus our preferences for safety and prosperity and so on). While arrogant cowards are chanting their slogans about “saving the world from fear,” the courageous know that the cowards are simply avoiding their own shame about their own naïveté. They are distracting themselves from logic with their mantras of idealism.

With courage, we can be attentive to the contrasting possibilities of naïveté and prudence. We can be responsible for focusing on prudence and being cautious of naïveté.

“[Gay?] kids these days are out of control.” – Cicero, 44 A.D.

August 21, 2014
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn So, Dan, basically what you are saying is that I was naive when I was younger!?!? You did not even know me when I was 6!

    You act like I must have been afraid a long time ago in the past just because I am displaying a desperate tantrum of hysteria right now, right? You are arrogant and analytical and a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, which proves your lack of credibility. This should not be like this!

  • Daniel Fritschler Well as long as you are aware that you are displaying a desperate tantrum of hysteria than you may not be doing it out of fear…. and yes you were a dumbass 6 year old which you should not have been!?!?!?! Now we have to build a time machine and go back and fix this shit…..dammit
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn I have a time machine in my mouth. “Here is how the past used to be: governments were more honest and less coercive.”
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn “Which is how it should always be… Because that is what the government-operated schools told absolutely everyone because they care so much about me personally.”
  • Daniel Fritschler lol too fucking funny, no?
  • Liz Gentry Kids these days are out of control. They don’t respect their elders, they have no respect for others’ property, and they wear clothing and perform acts no self-respecting citizen would. – Cicero, 44AD
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn I think what Cicero was trying to say is that young people tend to be ignorant, immature, and untamed, plus naively unaware of the punishments that the adults will soon implement on them in order to govern and regulate them (with more intensity as the youth mature). At any given point, the youth have not been fully traumatized, terrorized, humiliated, and shamed- not yet.
  • Liz Gentry And each generation thinks they are right so the higher you become in the pecking order the less tolerant and more set in your ways. We need to let our kids make those mistakes. it has been going on this way since time immemorium.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Liz, I disagree on a particular point. For those rising in the social order, they have the influence and confidence to be less tolerant and more invasive (to the extreme of actual military invasions and occupations and so on). For those at the upper levels of the social order, those people have the capacity to let their kids make “more” mistakes (to protect their own children from excessive supervision, intolerance, propaganda, and trauma while at the same time pouring it on the masses).

    That is what has been going on since time immemorium. There are also waves of various kinds of excess, with each wave of excess leading to a reactionary conservatism, then moderation, then eventually excess again.

    There is no “generation” that does not have bias (think of itself as right). What is interesting is that within EVERY generation, there are some who are aware of human psychology and recognize the vast distinctions between things like a ranting arrogance and a calm courage.

    The arrogant insistence that “_____ should not be how it is” is the foundation of all “suffering” (in the Buddhist sense of the word). However, that arrogance is itself simply an effect of a form of terror.

    No one is born terrified of violations to their expectations. Why? because no one is born with expectations at all!

    “Hi kids, let’s talk about pubic hair!”

    We are programmed with expectations. When we internalize an expectation and then recognize our own inconsistency with some internalized expectation, that can produce the experience called shame (hiding that inconsistency). From shame, arrogance is a natural by-product.

    To distract others (and myself) from shame, I can say “look over there: ____ should not be how it is!” Such terrified, arrogant condemnation of reality is totally optional, but immensely popular.

    People can attempt to drown their shames in alcohol, music, their careers, celebrity gossip, political fanaticism, or gambling. All of that has some value (like as a band-aid), yet only so much.

    The only way to fully relax our condemnation of reality is to admit it and then withdraw it (to repent by admitting to our past terrors… without adding a condemnation or apology about our past terrors). This is rather clearly stated in the New Testament as well as in the scriptures of many other traditions, but the naive arrogance of the vast majority of people may tend to “bury” those “embarrassing” passages amidst a bunch of fluff and controversy.

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn An example is “gay marriage.” That is one my favorite “non-issues.” It is like “homosexual impregnation” or “gay heterosexuality.”

    Let’s review the word origins: Matrimony means “motherhood” (or, more specifically, an expectation of motherhood/pregnancy/procreation).

    c.1300, from O.Fr. matremoine, from L. matrimonium “wedlock, marriage,” from matrem (nom. mater) “mother” + -monium, suffix signifying “action, state, condition.”

    Eventually, that word evolved in to “marriage.” Then, recently, gay couples who want to have a wedding ceremony used the term “marriage” as if it means nothing more than “wedding.” (Of course, this may have been encouraged by certain political groups aiming at stirring trivial but emotional controversies.)

    Any parent who does not want to be a grandparent can tell their kid(s) that exclusive homosexuality is wonderful. That is their loss. They can promote “lesbian motherhood” or “celibate motherhood” or “male motherhood” whatever they like.

    I was adopted. Adoption is not the same as procreation. Kind of like reading a scripture is not the same as comprehending the simplicity of it.

    O.E. weddian “to pledge, covenant to do something, marry,” from P.Gmc. *wadjojanan (cf. O.N. veðja “to bet, wager,” O.Fris. weddia “to promise,” Goth. ga-wadjon “to betroth”), from PIE base *wadh- “to pledge, to redeem a pledge” (cf. L. vas, gen. vadis “bail, security,” Lith. vaduoti “to redeem a pledge”). Sense remained “pledge” in other Gmc. languages (cf. Ger. Wette “bet, wager”); development to “marry” is unique to Eng.

    O.E. weddung “state of being wed” (see wed ). Meaning “ceremony of marriage” is recorded from c.1300; the usual O.E. word for the ceremony was bridelope, lit. “bridal run,” in reference to conducting the bride to her new home.

On contempt for the naive masses and… “the ultimate ignorance”

August 1, 2014
  • What is the difference between the selective dismissal of something as “presumed irrelevant” and “refusing” to investigate? There are many things to investigate, various ways of doing it, and lots of things that Dr. Dyer can say about it. Why should I mind what he says?I am interested in your reply. I consider his comment… ignorant. It is imprecise at least.

    When people presume something to be true and decline to question it, that can be hysteria. Or, it can be time management.

    Why “should” anyone question the superstitions that have been programmed in to them in schools and the mass media and so on? I got credit for writing it down on a test, so it is natural for me to presume it is true, right?

    The arrogance of people who dump contempt on the naive for being naive are… still naive. But they are just more arrogant than most.

    So, a child is ignorant of many things and admits it. That is the ultimate ignorance. What coiuld possibly be more ignorant than not having ANY idea about a subject- like having never even heard of it?

  • To reject unfamiliar ideas and information is normal! In particular, when huge amounts of resources have been devoted to programming people to have a particular presumption, I might notice that it can be a very delicate thing to present them with contrary data. For instance, many “scientific facts” are complete nonsense and always were (even if I got a degree for mindlessly repeating those ideas on some exams a few decades ago).

    • BC replied: Got it. Simply, if someone you know asks you to check something out and be open minded and you reject the idea with little or no information. You could be considered ignorant. This is not the truth of course but rather an opinion. Like your reaction and interpretation. That is my reply, opinion and view. To each his own. I wouldn’t give a facebook quote too much significance though.
    • J R Fibonacci Hunn responded back: Yes, plus billions of people are quite ignorant and many of them have been very effectively trained to resist learning and to defend their ignorance in order to main certain social appearances. I certainly was.I consider a lot of mainstream experts to be “intentionally ignorant,” including MDs and PhDs and so on. However, it is optional for me to have a sense of contempt toward the average MD or PhD for having no other experience (or perspectives) but what they have.

      The underlying issue is self-righteousness (as in paranoia about other people realizing that I might be wrong about ANYTHING). I could give lots of examples. I think for now that I will not give any though.

      I will say that it has been VERY interesting to me to be exposed over and over to “experts” and non-experts displaying a reaction of absolute panic and ridicule toward science… while invoking the NAME of science. Humans can be quite fascinating!

from naive complacency to conservatism

February 21, 2013
Louisiana State Lottery ticket from 1888. Fron...

Louisiana State Lottery ticket from 1888. Front and back of “Tenth Class” ticket (eg, 1/10th of a dollar or 10 cents) for the drawing of May 8, 1889. Engraving on back of ticket includes signature of P.G.T. Beauregard. Stamp on back indicates it was sold by an agent in Boston. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)


The shift from naive complacency to conservatism is here. Those who understand what true conservatism means will recognize that extreme scarcity is equivalent to unique value. For decades, the voices of naivete have gathered together, claiming that there is safety in numbers. However, just because a huge concentration of people all buy lottery tickets, that only decreases the odds of winning. When huge concentrations of borrowers ravenously go in to debt to gamble on real estate speculation with borrowed money, the more widespread the extremism, then the more severe and sudden the encounter with reality.


Håll tummarna!

Håll tummarna! (Photo credit: Wikipedia)


the shift from complacency to conservatism is here






Shin watches the shower of lottery tickets

Shin watches the shower of lottery tickets (Photo credit: Wikipedia)



the ugliest duckling- on language and the reality of labels

April 1, 2012

Once upon a time there was a young goose who had been trained to be a duck. The goose was trained to be a duck by a bunch of other geese who believed that they were not geese, but ducks. So, it was natural for them to tell any other goose that it was also a duck just like they believed they were.

“First of all, your feathers should be black like ours, because you are a duck,” they said. Of course, none of them had black feathers, though.

“Should I say anything,” the young goose wondered, hoping that no one could hear it talking to itself. After thinking silently for a while, the young goose said to one other goose “what color are your feathers?”

“Oh, I do not have any feathers,” said that other goose, sounding rather annoyed. “I used to have white feathers, but since my feathers should have been black like any good duck’s, all of my white feathers were pulled out and no feathers have grown back since then.”

The young goose could clearly see the white feathers on that goose, so the goose thought that perhaps being annoyed is a sign of being presented with a possibility that does not fit with one’s presumptions or experience. Maybe annoyance is a way of defending against a lesson for which one is not currently ripe to learn.

“Isn’t it great to be a duck,” someone else said proudly to the young goose. “I sure am glad that I am not a cloud or a rock or a tree or a goose, aren’t you?”

“Uh,” said the young goose, thinking for a moment of what to do or say next, “yes, I am also very grateful for what I am. Thank you for reminding me.”

The young goose thought quietly that perhaps pride is also a way of announcing that a particular subject is not currently one about which one is ripe to learn. Indeed, the same things that geese may be proud about can be things that some geese are annoyed about. If one goose is proud of it’s allegedly black feathers, then that goose might be very annoyed by mirrors that reveal that one’s black feathers are unusually white, considering that they have been publicized as being black feathers.

“Well, I am really sad for geese,” said another goose to the young goose. “Can you even imagine what it must be like to be so amazingly ugly? And those geese are also not just ugly but unbelievably naive, truly. I simply can’t believe how naive they are! I mean, many of them do not even seem to know that they are geese. Plus, they can get so annoyed when people call them geese. Isn’t that annoying? Plus, some of them are so proud of being birds when being a bird is obviously nothing special. After all, you and I are birds, too!”

The young goose stared blankly at the goose who had just explained how it could be sad. Perhaps being sad or annoyed or proud requires a good explanation, an entire story, an attachment to some particular language for interpreting reality in a way that then produces sadness or annoyance or pride. In other words, perhaps being sad is a behavior that takes practice and discipline.

Certainly, being proud involves telling stories about which one gets to be proud. Could being annoyed also be a behavior that one cannot do without language? Is language the source of emotional states like sadness and pride and annoyance, wondered the young goose?

For no reason in particular, the young goose then said to the sad goose, “I am so sad about you being so sad.” To proud goose, the young goose said, “I am so proud of you being so proud.” “Finally, I am so annoyed, too, that you are so annoyed,” said the young goose to the annoyed goose. “Really, it is just mind-boggling, isn’t it, that anyone could focus on anything else besides the one thing that is so annoying that I keep focusing on it over and over and over, you know what I mean? How is it that anyone could miss the obviousness of the importance of that one particular annoying thing, huh, why, like can anyone give me even just one good reason, PLEASE?”

The other geese stared blankly at the young goose, blinking like they had just woke up from a dream, momentarily astonished. Finally, one of the geese said, “Thank you for opening my eyes. I don’t really know how it is that I am here talking with you, because you obviously you are just some crazy duck! How would you know anything about what it is like for me to be a goose? Plus, everyone knows that ducks can’t talk.”

Then, the other geese began talking with themselves, apparently about the weather. Soon, they turned south and flew away.

Now, which is an excellent time for something very interesting to either actually happen or to almost happen, the young goose suddenly noticed that it was looking at a flat surface, scanning across it noticing a sequence of shapes, (or maybe listening to some sounds) and making sense of them into words and phrases and a ridiculous story about an ugly duckling. Of course, this is not that story. This is a different story. That one is that one and this one is this one.

See, obviously those two stories must be entirely different. Which one this one is exactly… well that would probably depend on whether you are producing sadness or pride or annoyance or perhaps something else, if it could be a lie that those are the only three types of consciousness and there just cannot be another other type of consciousness, no matter what.

Anyway, in conclusion, I’d like to review the main points of this story. First, all geese are sad. Next, all ducks are annoyed. Finally, all birds are proud. However, all words are not really words at all, but are in fact reality.

Of course, all of this is something that you absolutely must keep completely secret, or else you would have to tell other people about it, and that could be very dangerous, right? Also, since no one already knows exactly how much fun that could be, and uncertainty is clearly the most frightening thing in the world, well, I think it might be at least- okay actually I admit that I do not really know as much about uncertainty as I used to pretend to know, but, anyway, wait, what were you saying the other day about how the only thing we are afraid to fear is fear itself?

That was just about the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Tell it to me again, okay?

While the ugliest duckling is based on a true story, any resemblance to any other story, fictitious or factual, is clearly due to an entirely random series of keystrokes pounded by an entirely random primate on an entirely random device called a computer which just accidentally appeared out of nowhere for no particular reason. By the way, did I mention yet that I invented the internet, you know, quite accidentally?

Copyright 2010 by Jeffrey Robert Hunn

Published on: Jun 20, 2010

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parody: blame exhausts the naive

March 18, 2012
The exhaustion of blame?
Get Behind Me Satan

Image via Wikipedia

To all of my formerly favorite ladies (i.e. past romantic partners), I blamed you for ruining the perfect relationship that I pretended to have with you. You sucked at pretending. You should have been more pretensive and naive, you know, like me. Plus, you should not have been so truthful. You owed it to me to be a better liar, yes, so that our relationship would save my life from hell and be my bridge to heaven. I had a perfect plan for my own personal salvation, and then you personally failed me. You were such a huge disappointment, Plus, you personally are still Satan incarnate, yes, every single one of you. You betrayed me. Well, at least I was quite embarrassed at how things went with you.
To all the people that have lost any amount of net worth (prosperity) by not heeding my clear and repeated warnings about real estate markets and stock markets, I blamed you for not staying as wealthy as you were, by which I mean… not getting much more wealthy with me, by which I really mean… not making me wealthy. No, you are not Satan, but you sure did remind me of her a lot. You betrayed yourself. Plus, you should have been much smarter and responsible, you know, like me.
Actually, maybe I have been just a little pretensive, slightly idiotic and marginally irresponsible. That’s like being only slightly pregnant. So, what I really mean by this is that I have been investing– over and over and over again- in blame. See how conscious I am now?
Yes, I invested exactly how I did in various romantic relationships and various business prospects and opportunities, and now I appreciate learning through them with you, so thank you. I completely forgive you for being the way you obviously should not have been- well, at least, I am open to you earning my generous forgiveness from me eventually.
However, as for all that investing in blame: I admit that it was irresponsible and idiotic of me. I really should not have been so pretensive, idiotic and irresponsible… and naive. I’m totally to blame for that- totally.
The Fountain of Eternal Life in downtown Cleve...

The Fountain of Eternal Life in downtown Cleveland, Ohio, with 200 Public Square in the background (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

I mean: it’s just horrible how I was to me. Plus, I totally blame myself for blaming myself.

I was way too self-destructive. I was way too negative. I really should not have been so much like I have been. Plus, I should really stop being so hard on myself, you know, hypothetically. I should really stop judging me, you know, someday. That reminds me: I’m really stating to remind me of Satan, huh?
By the way, to all the beliefs I have had about how life should be different from how it is, I blamed you for me believing in you. You are the reasons that I have been addicted to all that drama. Plus, I can’t wait to get rid of you so I can get to heaven, you know, soon.
What? Do I still believe that this is hell? Are you kidding me? Of course this is hell! Just look around, seriously.
Here is proof. Ready? Okay, everywhere you look, there is another Satan, there is more evil, there are new things being how they obviously should not be. Am I right or what?
Oh, and people are so ashamed and resentful and way way way too negative. Life is fundamentally annoying. I had a perfect life basically right up until my life started.

That’s right. Everything was perfect until that one thing happened… and you know the thing that I am talking about- or at least you should. Anyway, as I was saying… before anything happened to me, then obviously nothing bad had ever happened to me because

The Great Satan (by Latuff).

Image via Wikipedia

nothing at all had happened to me.

Back then, hell did not even exist. Hell is when life seems to happen to me. Wherever I am, there is hell- kind of like my own shadow,- can you hear what I am saying?
Who I am is a collection of beliefs of how life should be, how I should be, how I actually am, you know- as distinct from how I am obviously not. Hell is the linguistic separation of everything into these two inherent fundamental unquestionable categories: me over here and my life over there.

All I am saying is that my life is hell. I’m perfect. My life, though… it’s hell. If it wasn’t for how amazing I am, I probably would not

This Is Not Happening
Image via Wikipedia

have even survived this long, you know, with my life happening to me like that.

But I know that I should not be proud. I should be humble. Basically, I should be how I should be, you know what I’m saying? Plus, I should not be so much like how I should not be- obviously!
It’s a very serious problem. I’m working on it.
I’m thinking that I should have me fixed by sometime next week; yeah, let’s go with Tuesday at noon (local time). I sure hope though that I do not disappoint me again. That would really suck, huh?
So, my life is what seems to be a series of problems happening to me. Living does not require me to be here at all. However, clearly, obviously, living is here, aren’t we?
When I personally am not here, living just keeps going on by itself, you know, like it always has been. When the personal identity is absent- or, we could say, when the ego dies (or matures?) – then eternal life is happening already, which would make sense for anything that we might call eternal. If eternity has not already started, then that would just be silly.
However eternal life is not happening at any particular time. Also, eternal life is not happening to anyone in particular. When no one is here, eternal life is obviously happening the only time it ever always is: right now.
Typing happens. Reading happens. Scrolling the window down the webpage happens. Then something else happens… anything else, one thing at a time.
Living happens. Living just happens however it is actually happening, whenever it does, wherever it does, even perhaps sometimes as an identity that identifies itself in opposition to life itself and says “life is happening to me.” At least, that is certainly possible.
So, no one is here, except of course if someone suddenly shows up. I sure hope that doesn’t happen to any of us, though. That would just be hell, you know, hypothetically. We really should take some serious precautions to avoid that.
And when you read the word “precautions,” I know what you were thinking, because I know that you have a dirty mind. You read the word “precautions” and then you immediately thought: condoms.
That is not what I typed, though. Would you please PLEASE stop being so presumptive and… and, you know, dramatic! It’s totally making my perfect life hell.

Image via Wikipedia

You do know that everything would be totally heaven if it just wasn’t for you showing up all uninvited like this, right? You’re Satan. Plus, as if that were not bad enough, you have a very dirty mind.
I wish, you know.. basically you should just lighten up! Everything would be fine then, you know, soon.
The above was published in the first hours of December 4, 2009, as a culmination of sorts of this “happening” of September 9, 2009:

Soon (Bridge to Heaven)


Related articles

stages of adaptive appreciation

October 14, 2011

The above audio contains a lot more clarification and information than the text below.

First, people begin innocent. Then, they are trained in how things should be and so become naively presumptive, though that is adaptive relative to the first stage.

Then, if the presumptive way does not work very well, some slight revisions are made in regard to the updated idealism of how things really should be, and now the reformed and refined presumptiveness becomes arrogance (as in self-righteousness). Again, that may be adaptive relative to the prior stage- using a more adapted model of presumptiveness.
Next, after perhaps a few distinct idealisms have been tried and have all failed to correspond to reality, a cynical perfectionism may develop. This is a reaction against all forms of presumptiveness, all models. This is a criticism against all forms of what allegedly should be. This can be called hypocrisy, for it is presuming that presumptiveness about how things should be is what should not be, which implicitly presumes that an innocent naivete is all that should ever be. Again, that may still be more adaptive than prior stages.
However, once that does not work well either, then humility and grace may eventually develop. Then there is an appreciation possible for every stage: naive innocence, naive presumptiveness, arrogant presumptiveness, arrogant cynicism, and humility.
These stages of adaption can be regrouped in to three distinctions: innocence, perfectionism, and humility. Perfectionism includes naive presumptiveness, arrogant presumptiveness, and arrogant cynicism.
We can even look at these as stages of appreciation. Initially, everything is equal. Then, various priorities and values are identified, learned and refined. Then, there is an appreciation for all models and all values and all priorities- just one at a time.
In other words, all of the models and presumptions are recognized as similar in that they are just models and presumptions. In any particular case, one or more models may be most relevant or useful. There can be an appreciation for each model as unique and for all models as only being models. There can be an appreciation for the creation of new models and discarding of old ones and naively or arrogantly clinging to certain ones or rejecting certain others.
Humility and appreciation may be two words for a single adaption. We might even call it “maturity.”

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