On condemnations of people who “hate us for being alive”

R.M. (Not quite the right initials) shared this image / meme:

(Note that the below exchange contains some “jargon,” as in words and phrases that are being used in a somewhat unusual way … ways which may seem weird or even cryptic to most readers, but that have very specific meanings to some people in the interaction.)

 

K.C. wrote:

Personally I can’t stand this current generation AS A WHOLE but I do agree with them something needs to be done. I am a gun owner but it is absolutely unacceptable to have shootouts or just a flat out ambush in school. These kids absolutely have the right to go to school and not fear for their lives. On that I support them.

 

J.R. wrote:

If someone begins with the idea that any questioning of them or their statements is by default “hate,” then perhaps they have no interest in an exchange of experiences or ideas.

 

 

R.M. wrote:

Really? Have you been following what has been happening? What the people who disagree with these students have actually been saying and doing? Listening is not about ethereal and esoteric statements from the stands.

 

 

J.R. wrote:

If there is a motivation to find one or more events to classify as “hateful,” then that can be done. Then, those cases can be focused on exclusively.

Do I know what “everyone” has said or done? No, and neither do you.

If you do not want to know what I have said or might say, I understand and accept that. Listening is a “current-moment phenomenon”, like it is either right here in this exchange or not.

 

 

R.M. wrote:

 

J R, where did I use the word “everyone”? These students are on the court taking on an issue where their opposition is saying and doing things that would likely be equated to hate.

And I assert that everything is a current moment phenomenon. Including memories of the past and predictions of the future.

 

J.R. wrote:

You did not use the word everyone until I did, right? So, obviously I was not quoting you.

I used quotation marks with the intention to suggest that sweeping generalizations (like the word “everyone”) are generally imprecise. If that was not clear to you already, so be it.

So, if it is useful in the promotion of your selected cause to focus on a portion of “our opposition” that is the easiest for you to equate with hate, I respect that position. I also respect the existence of **upsets and rackets and blind spots** (etc).   [note- that was some of the jargon right there, though the basic idea here is probably rather clear]

 

If I presume that “you clearly hate me,” then that could alter how I relate to your words. I might find evidence to support my position “everywhere.”

 

R.M. wrote:

J R … thank you for your engagement with this post that I shared that was created by someone else. I say that although I have moments of anger that could be described as BEING hateful, they pass quickly and I have created for myself that I hate no one. I also say that hate is a soul killer of those who say or have a hateful way of being.

 

Next, I do not understand what you’re saying. I respect it, I just don’t understand. Probably nothing to do with you (and all in how your words are occuring to me).

That’s it, that’s all I’m saying. I’m not generalizing and referring to some nebulus “everyone”. I am talking about, and as I suspect she is also, a small group of people many would describe as fanatical about guns.

What I see the meme is intending to say (how it occurs to me), is that she is talking about the people who have a very strong position and POV that is in support of guns and that they have said things and taken actions that would occur to most people as being hateful.

 

 

J.R. wrote:

You’re welcome. The kind of grief / grievance that I associate with “they hate us for being alive… for speaking” is quite extreme.

Can I respect and appreciate extremes of grief? Sure.

Someone can say that I hate them for being alive and I might presume that “it is simply the emotion talking- maybe some hatred- definitely some grief.” However, the extremes of someone’s emotion or passion does not establish much about their comprehension of related issues.

As for fanaticism, I might describe many people as fanatical about guns- with a variety of very different positions all presented in a way that I might call fanatical. Again, I can respect that.

 

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