On “national” debts (& psychological warfare to promote agonizing)

On Jan. 21, 2017, DL wrote:

Obama added 9.3 trillion to US National debt in 8 years (10.626 to 19.961) & George Bush Jr added 4.9 trillion in 8 years


J R: Basically, they both doubled the prior debt in 8 years.

Here is a 100-year chart of PER CAPITA national debt (shown in logarithmic scale):

That 2nd chart suggests that “things recently are actually pretty close to the prior trends.” Other than world war 1 and world war 2, the blue line is pretty steady, right?
In fact, if we further update the chart to adjust for inflation, then suddenly the whole thing flattens considerably, too.

However, there are other ways to present the long-term data that do suggest cause for some alarm (or at least caution and concern). Here is a chart of US national debt relative to Gross National Product (GNP) – as well as some perhaps arbitrary analysis by the creator of that chart:

Michele Klingensmith WilsonIts still not clear to me who or what exactly we owe this money to?
Gretchen Bronson: We owe it to ourselves (as we wrote a blank check to the government to do good on our behalf).

21 hrs


J R:Oo- to answer Michele, I will disagree with Gretchen‘s above answer. Technically, as in legally, the debt is owed by the US government THROUGH the private banking syndicate of the Federal Reserve to all those who own US treasury bonds.

For instance, if Queen Elizabeth of England or a Saudi prince own $2 trillion in US treasury bonds, that is the creditor to whom the US treasury / US government owes the debt as specified in the contract.

(Further down, I say more about how that relates to US citizens. Briefly, as we all know, the US government extracts wealth primarily from a very large group of people known collectively as “US Citizens.” They are the main population that is targeted for the collection of the debts entered by the US government.)

J R (still):  More or less, the Federal Reserve was created in 1913 by European bankers (like the Rothschild brothers through their agent in the US, JP Morgan). It was created as a way for the US to borrow its way in to invading Europe on behalf of the lenders (including the German “Windsor” dynasty that had recently ascended to the throne of England. Incidentally, that family also included the kings of a few other countries in Europe).

That invasion took place and is now part of what we call World War One.

Gretchen Bronson Triumvirate of Evil: Rothschild, Rockefeller, & Soros
J R: The first wave of loans were 20 years in duration. By 1929 (16 years in to the 20 year loans), concerns increased that the US government was not solvent to repay the debts. Bond markets in both Europe and the US collapsed, as well as other markets (stocks, real estate, job markets).

J R:By 1933, there was a formal default (bankruptcy) as the US government was forced to criminalize possession of gold by US citizens, which meant the US citizens were forced to “sell” their gold to the US treasury in exchange for “Federal Reserve Notes.” In early 1934, those federal reserve notes were devalued by 41% overnight (actually, at the stroke of midnight on Jan. 31, 1934).

More details are here, plus some related historical documents: http://Az-Az-Az.com/1/1.php

Gretchen Bronson I was highlighting that as citizens we give away the ability to control national debt to the government and that we have little if any control over said debt ($19 Trillion).


J R: I invite you, Gretchen, just to think of it like this: I was hanging out with Vince Lombardi in 1983 and he and I made up that he and I personally controlled all land north of the equator between 19° latitude and 54° latitude. Then we announced that all of the people who happened to be in “OUR” territory owe us a 10% payroll tax and a 5% sales tax and a 40% income tax. Plus, by the way, anyone who dares to possess any gold in our territory (if not exempt under our rules) is subject to 10 years imprisonment and/or a fine of $180,000.  [That is a reference to the image above, showing the 1933 criminalization of the possession of gold, with the $10,000 fine in 1933 being approximately equal in value to a fine of $180,000 in current US dollars.]

J R: Then, based on our claim of the debt owed to us by our human resources, we go over to some dudes who claim to rule over a particular band of the earth near the equator or south of the equator or whatever- not like we really care. Then we all write down some words on paper and organize some school curriculums and mainstream media programming to promote the collection of the debt claims that we just invented and imposed on our human resources.

We realize that if we give our human resources the right to vote and to control of a tiny fraction of the operations of our wealth extraction business, then that layer of democracy (on top of the ancient foundations of our extortion business) will increase compliance rates dramatically.

 3 · 19 hrs
J R: Another example would to be to imagine some crazy idea called the European Union in which some people in Greece agree with some people in Germany that the Germans now are retroactively cosigning  be liable for all of the debts that the Greeks have ever entered.
J RBut not it is not that the Greek debt is now just cosigned by a few German folks who personally sign the treaty. The idea is that a few Germans are claiming the authority to bind ALL Germans as cosigners- even people who will be born in Germany in 200 years or 20,000 years.
J R: Think of all government operations as acts of war. Among other things, Governments invent debts owed to them by their target populations and then proceed to collect those invented debts. Pretty simple.
4 · 19 hrs ·
Sean RyanDebt farming by imposing the use of debt-based currencies under compulsion of law is the single most profitable enterprise on the planet. So much so that by tolerating it we surrender control over our culture and our leadership.
J R: Sean, I question your use of a phrase like “our leadership.” Unless you put that phrase is quotes, I will presume that you are just echoing the programming of the mainstream.

J R: Currency is not the issue either. It is total trivia (at least in regard to the main issues raised so far).

Consider: If Vince Lombardi and I declared that you need to pay your debts to us with chunks of silver or gallons of cod liver oil (rather than with debt-based currency), that would do nothing to change the fundamental mechanism of the wealth extraction system, which is military coercion.

But if Vince and I went around trying to collect on those debts that we claim that all these people owe to us, people might refuse. They might question the origin of the claimed debt (allegedly owed by them to us). So that brings us to a key issue, which is not the words used in the propaganda, but the actual experience of intimidation (from perceived military superiority) which leads people to panic and then accept the ideas of the propaganda because their logical capacity has been crippled by adrenalin (intimidation).

So, indoctrination only works so well because of the [perceived or actual] vast military superiority of gangs like the free masons and the Jesuits and the USMC (no offense to veterans intended).

J R: There are carefully constructed psychological warfare programs that promote shaming and guilt because “the Human Resources are TOLERATING the fact that the world’s leading military organizations have better nuclear weapons than the general public (and flying craft far beyond what they publicize etc).” The use of a word like tolerating is absurd (except when we calmly respect the effectiveness of the indoctrination systems).
J R: You might as well say that sheep should be ashamed of tolerating the fact that wolves typically have sharper teeth and stronger jaws than sheep.
 1 · 17 hrs

J R: So, should I tolerate that the sun is older than I am? Sure. Should I tolerate that the moon has more mass than I do? Sure. Should I tolerate that Tom Brady is currently richer than I am? Sure.

Again, “tolerate” is a word that is sometimes used in psychological warfare to shame, to incite rage, to spiritually cripple. I will tolerate Sean’s use of the word tolerate. And I may be very condescending and antagonistic about it… or rather humble and casual.

Sean Ryan ….There’s no reason to be disempowered.


J R Fibonacci Hunn To me, you are the one who is disempowered. My immediate experience of power and influence is quite independent of any specific word choices, theories or doctrines (or a rejection or dismissal of such ideas). However, because of my present experience of power and freedom, I experience being totally free and “empowered” to entertain a wide variety of ideas. 😉
Sean Ryan I suppose I am confused about the message you’re trying to convey. I got the sense of a lot of futility– sheep cannot obviously change the order between themselves and wolves.

J R :  If someone has been programmed to be ashamed of the history of the US government and related enterprises (UN, UK, NATO, the tavistock institute etc), then they may have a sense of disempowerment merely at the knowledge of the continuing operations of those enterprises. I am no longer burdened by clinging “heroically” (egotistically) to such shames and contempts.

…or to the social salvation and the “holy glories” of “bringing down the evil empires.”

 1 · 14 hrs

J R Fibonacci Hunn In general, I was merely making some simplistic assertions about the nature of the US national debt and various business enterprises for the accumulation of wealth and social power, such as the Federal Reserve or Maryland or the EU or the Persian empire or the crusades or “the Gambino crime family.”

Take a label like “holy” and add it to the word crusades (to say “the HOLY crusades”), and that will change nothing of the history. Same if you say “the HOLY empire of the Medici crime family.”

The claims made by the people conducting those business enterprises are just claims. If the Apaches invade the Hopis and then say “the Hopis owe us 100,000 sheep as REPARATIONS to offset the cost of us to invading and slaughtering their warriors (and then placing our political puppets to rule the survivors),” then that is… perhaps a rather unremarkable event in the context of the last several thousand years of human history.


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