On the political idealism of utopian liberals

Lisa started by sharing this image. After a few other comments, I added the one below and the rest of the conversation is shown after that.

 
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn re [what Lisa wrote;] “We are supposed to have a representative political system for “expediency” to work on behalf of the common good…when it’s operating according to design, it’s the best collective political system out there.”

    Don’t all political systems advertise themselves as “being for the common good?” Noah invented coercive systems with the specific design of a worldwide single government. Why? To save humanity from the threat of another apocalypse by an insecure God?

    Moses ordered the slaughter and rape of the Midianites. Why? Because their women had been tempting the men of the Hebrew tribes, so that was their punishment.

    (Feel free to correct me if you think that I misquoted the books of Exodus or Numbers in any significant way.)

    3 hrs · Like
  • Lisa Merrai Labon I was thinking democracy/republic/parliament vs tyranny, communism, dictatorship….needn’t go back to the bible….Greeks or Iroquois are sufficient.
    1 hr · Like
  • Clinton Wensley Both are about as believable Lisa
    1 hr · Like
  • Lisa Merrai Labon Clinton , I think she’s aware. [Marianne W, pictured in the image above]
    1 hr · Like
  • Clinton Wensley VERY Self-Aware, yes Lisa … but as for the bigger picture… (and I DO have tons of respect for this lady) she doesn’t have a clue … her open letter to Hillary (if she really did wrote this) Reeks of naivety.
    1 hr · Unlike · 1
  • Jacquie Perkins Chin They all work in concert for the UN.
    1 hr · Unlike · 1
  • Lisa Merrai Labon We have a defacto oligarchy operating in the US at present….Marianne is speaking to those who really do question the paradigm….to look beyond the surface progress having a woman as President represents….I took her message to mean, “look at the bigger picture of who she still protects/represents”…..it’s not the common wealth….it’s corporate wealth.
    1 hr · Like · 2
  • Jacquie Perkins Chin Corporations in bed with the governments and the UN (all branches) via NGOs and other PPPs to avoid liability and accountability. As stated on UN websites, all are working for the ‘stakeholders’ and that ‘ain’t’ us.
    1 hr · Like
  • Clinton Wensley You guys are close ….
    1 hr · Like
  • Jacquie Perkins Chin Close? What am I missing Clint?
    1 hr · Like
  • Clinton Wensley Most people see only what they want to Believe . . . for the simple reason that they wouldn’t be capable of seeing or comprehending or wrapping their brain around what is actually going on.

    In 1998, I had the privilege of meeting a man who was a dear friend of my girlfriend at the time … he came over for dinner one night with his wife… and we all had a nice dinner together.

    After, we stated talking about world events, and the conversation eventually drifted to his former work (he was 55 yrs old, & retired)…. to make a long story short, this man was one of the nicest people I have met to date, and my girlfriend thought the world of him (he and his wife took care of her before I came into the picture, as my girlfriend was trying to recover from cancer)

    This guy worked for a group of people that were above US Gov’t (probably in Europe) … and not even he knew exactly who his employer was by name. He told me things that made my hair stand up on end regarding politics, space, Medical, ET’s, etc… stuff that people think is conspiracy, but is actually going on in plane site …. as well as told me some things that would be going on in years to come (and they are happening as we speak).

    He explained that he and his wife have to move 1-2 x’s every year, as there have been several attempts on his life (one that happened in a restaurant in Japan, where his best friend died in front of him) It was a lot to take in at the time.. and rearranged every thing that I thought I knew about the world, and what was going on.

    Forget what you see and hear on the news if you trying to figure it all out … for its only 10% of the Truth…. and even if you were told the Truth, you’d dismiss it, and say, “that’s impossible, that was in a movie, that can’t be true” !!

    I for sure don’t know the entire picture … but, what I DO know for a fact is that 9/11 didn’t happen because of 19 kids armed with box cutters …. Oswald never shot kennedy (much less even fired a shot) ……. there have been to date at least 5 cures for cancer starting as far back as 1930 that aren’t shared with the public ……. and Obama is about as much in control of the US, as a president, as Charlie Sheen is with his addictions.

    I DO admire Marianne’s letter though … she comes from the heart.

    34 mins · Unlike · 2
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn A simple point is that there is such a thing as intimidation as well as systems of coercion and violence and intimidation (such as “courts”). On top of those coercive systems are systems for promoting compliance and morale amongst the human resources (including the modern media).
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Consider as an example that the US currently is active in supporting cheap labor for diamond mining in Sierra Leone. To translate that in to simple language, the US promotes the use of force to keep the peasants poor and terrified so that they reliably work in near slavery conditions.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn That is not a new kind of policy for the US. Obviously, promoting slavery was “domestic policy” in the slave states of “our holy republic” in the 18th century and most of the 19th century.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn From the Holy Roman Inquisition (with open use of ritual human sacrifice and torture) to the much milder methods of typical public schools today, the various governing systems are there to regulate or rule or govern the human resources. The idea that there is “a greater good” of humanity (or even of a nation or tribe) is typically presented by people who have biased personal interests.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn In the case of Marianne W., I presume that she is sincere, but that does not more her less naive or more enlightened. I consider her “just another delusional liberal.”
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn In the historical extremes of soviet communism, US interests were central to suppporting the devastation conducted by the soviet government that killed tens of million of residents of the USSR (just ocunting those who died in the first few decades). The same general pattern replayed in China, then in Cuba, then in Cambodia.
    21 mins · Edited · Like
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn

    Nelson Mandela is a very famous communist but in the US we generally do not identify him as a communist or terrorist, but as a “freedom fighter.” Some will argue that he was only funded by communists, but if you research the communist political platform and what Mandela supported, are they identical or nearly so? Here he is (in 1990?) giving a classic communist “solidarity” gesture (in front of a flag with a classic Soviet communist symbol).

    http://therealrevo.com/…/2013/12/communist_mandela.jpg

    THEREALREVO.COM

  • Clinton Wensley Again J R, you get side tracked easily ….

    Republicans or Democrats …. Liberals or Conservatives …. it doesn’t matter…. BOTH parties are controlled by the same group of people… they OWN them both ! Period.

  • Jacquie Perkins Chin I ‘get it’ Clinton. So much to know and when you find out enough it’s surreal. Crazy insane surreal.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn As for a “plutocracy ruining this country,” what is so new about plutocracy in this country or elsewhere? In the case of US interests (JP Morgan, Schiff, etc) supporting the Soviet revolution and “reforms,” (i.e. killing tens of millions of russians, etc), one thing that I notice is that communism is always supported by external interests who benefit from the devastation delivered by the communist leadership.
    4 mins · Edited · Like
  • Clinton Wensley SO much so Jacquie .. that you have to sit down, just to think about it all…. and I rather just not know it, personally.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Clinton, I just consider that detail irrelevant (like that both the Whigs and Tories were all controlled by the Jeusits). I presume that there could be international readers here as well in this thread, so I am just referencing the US occasionally as a matter of incidental convenience.
    3 mins · Edited · Like
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Of course the ancient Egyptian secret societies (free masons, etc) control all of the local branches of their networks of piracy and terror. The notable point here is that in some places, there is a middle class (which of course support the plutocrats) and, in those cases, there is much less need for overt coercion (including torture).
    4 mins · Edited · Like
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn When compliance is low, then perhaps 5% of the population is entitled to vote (like in the US in 1790) while the slaves are slaves and the indigenous population is “trespassing.” Through systems like public schooling, compliance rates can be raised and so more groups can be included in ceremonial rituals of loyalty (like voting). By 1850, maybe 20% of the US population could legally vote. As decades went by, that number soon passed 50%. However, the underlying coercion of the ruling class (thorugh the court system and military) is no different in communism or “democracy.”
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Some readers here may know Marianne W. as a champion of forgiveness. However, to me, she is not only naive but operates in condemnation and hysteria.

    She judges plutocracy (if she is hysterically sincere as I expect) as “wrong.” She is disappointed. She is frustrated. She is guilty. (I could go on.)

    Just now · Edited · Like
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn What Marianne W. seems not to understand is repentance. Of course, that is rather off-the-subject. However, that issue is huge and the lack of repentance does not address her guilt (her guilt from “first world privilege” I presume) and that guilt is driving her guilty liberal perfectionism to save the world from people like Hillary Clinton.

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