Making friends with fear and even… shame!

JD wrote:

Guilt, shame and fear are the lowest vibrations; joy and excitement, compassion and concern, these are high vibrations — Quite simply, change your complex frequencies and vibrations, you are born a Master of this ability as cocreator.

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  • Clare Kent Quick question you didnt cover anger because with that comes passion, emotion, feelings. I understand the intent is there but if you’re angry for the right reasons – Is that a high or low vibration? When I am truly angry my intent and virations seems stronger than any other point.
  • Star Skittles anger is a product of fear.
  • Star Skittles we are fixed on the physical plane, which disables us from seeing the unseen vibrational interactions.
  • Clare Kent Hmmm maybe but I don’t think its always the case. I will have a think about this tonight, connect some dots. Thanks skittles.
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  • J R Fibonacci Hunn The use of terms like “low” and “high” are arbitrary preferences. Of course people prefer experiences of gratitude and joy over terror or frustration.The one who fears shame is still a slave, even if joyful or grateful in a moment. The one who embra

    ces shame will be humbled / humiliated… Which can produce the most precious learning.And the faith that is required involves immense courage. Most people do not have it. They will chase joy and “high vibrations” out of fear (for in fact it is paranoia that drives their frightened chase for higher vibrations). They will eventually encounter frustration and exhaustion, which is a very valuable lesson (though they may resist learning for quite awhile).

    Embracing shame, Grace also arises… Through the relaxing of the shames programmed by schools and in culture (including shames about human bodies). Modesty develops after the terror of idealism relaxes.

    By the way, a message like “just think positive and raise your vibrations” does have some value. However, if people relate to that idea / “method” as an affirmation that is a “cure-all,” that is idealism.

    the idea that people “should not feel how they feel” is shaming / psychological warfare. If circumstances produce the result of a child screaming in terror, that is just a momentary behavior. There is no need to shame the child for “low vibrations” or be aloof and obsess about “high vibrations.”

    I am not just talking theory here. I have made some “mistakes” as a parent and slowly or quickly I have learned from them.

  • Chaffee Cline to release guilt shame and fear… one has to be a “forgiveness warrior” and in a nanosecond in any situation…with any person…and most importantly is to forgive self and others… past, present and future easily and effortlessly with calm and compassion…. here and now… “To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.”
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  • J R Fibonacci Hunn Chaffee, you speak as if shame is primarily a conscious process. Shame is all about the internal suppression of consciousness.How does shame relax? With the opening of chronic physical tensions (and bodily pain), panicked breathing, terrified confus

    ion, and no immediate sense of a trigger.Of course, there is also the issue of withdrawing any prior condemnation of the past. However, that is not “forgiving people for doing wrong.” That is completely releasing any idealism about how the past should have been (or should not have been). Most people are terrified of shame and retreat in to higher vibrations … Which allows them to begin relaxing.

    But their retreat from shame is not relaxing it. That is a coping mechanism to decrease the addition of new layers of shame.

    That is an important step. However, it is a baby step. Withdrawing from shame In fear is wise at a particular stage but is a *very* long way from the end of the path.

  • Clare Kent These three are all society/ religion made emotions, if you don’t judge there is no shame or guilt. I eliminated guilt and shame from me, yeah I made mistakes but who hasn’t. I won’t be held to ransom by an emotion or society for slight errors of judgement. I’m not saying I don’t feel those but they’re weak and not something I cling to anymore. Fear is something I have worked on these past six months by facing them head on.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn It is one thing to refrain from displaying our condemnation of some behavior or some person. It is an entirely different issue as to whether there is a sense of repulsion or not. Is there is an inner terror or a disturbance of a certain kind, that could be called “shame.”
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn If anything “disgusts” me, that is a real emotion. If I have contempt for anything, that is also real.Those who are ashamed of *any* emotion are still “slaves.” Those who pretend not to be slaves are… many. Such is the nature of shame!

  • Clare Kent Shame is not a real emotion, in some societies it is instilled, for instance tribal women have no worries about exposing their breasts in public,nobody is repulsed however do this in any major city and you’ll see the shame and repulsion,and the guilt instilled into you for doing so. Or the fact certain places monkey brains and cats are eaten, imagine that in your local town? They’d be outrage. Its what’s programmed in to you through the society you belong and its done in childhood. Where one thing is acceptable and normal somewhere, it isn’t so elsewhere. I am not saying I’m not repulsed by certain things because I find some cultural differences absolutely horrific.
  • Clare Kent I don’t believe we should be held ransom by any emotion be it guilt,shame,love of fear. Finding balance is really hard but I’m working on it.
  • J R Fibonacci Hunn I see what you mean now by “real,” Clare. Shame is always social.In a state of alarm, there are two main alternatives: flight (the natural #1 preference) or fight. Next is “freeze.”

    Shame is a type of “freezing.” It has a very specific set of physical tensions, such as “holding back” and holding your tongue.”

    Is all shame cultural? Close enough…. but a pet can display what would be called shame. So can a wild animal.

    In this image, one wolf has a head kept low as a sign of submission to the alpha male. You can say “shame is not real,” but saying that does not alter the reality of the various patterns of BEHAVIOR. Note that I am referencing emotions as neurological patterns of ACTIVITY.

    http://s2.wallippo.com/…/alpha-male…

    S2.WALLIPPO.COM

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn There is a fourth type of fear (besides fight, flight, and freeze). I called it “faking.” That includes any behavior to distract others from fear.Mixing aspects of “flight” and faking” would be behaviors to divert ourselves from perceived triggers of panic, such as a mantra or repeating an affirmation. That CAN be beneficial.

    However, that is not the absence of distress. That is moving the attention away from distress as a temporary coping mechanism.

    If your house is on fire, a mantra will not put out the fire or make it safe. It is fine to use a mantra to calm down a bit. Then, get a fire extinguisher and put out the fire (or leave the building and call 911).

    Fear is healthy. Paranoia and shame about fear is a state of chronic emotional distress. It is getting caught up in a desperate panic of “faking” calm.

  • J R Fibonacci Hunn

    • J R Fibonacci Hunn:
      Clare Kent, thanks for sharing your experience. If I was holding up a chair in one arm and a pitcher full of water in the other hand, and then walking up a stairway backwards, staying balanced would be hard, right?It is much easier to experience balance if you first “empty yourself of luggage.” However, those a nice poetic words that imply that you could do it yourself already.If you are interested in some interaction about how I could help you “set aside some of that old luggage- at least for a moment,” then you are welcome to send me a friend request. Sometimes it is much easier to find balance with someone helping to bring attention to where the energy is currently concentrated.

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    • Brenda Lozano Let us not judge our feelings and emotions, much less our reactions! I know that when I judge my feelings, it just creates anxiety, which makes me feel even worse and leads to guilt/shame…as if I am “above” these human experiences and “should know better”. We practice being ourselves everyday, part of inner peace and living in the present moment is acceptance. We have to accept that light casts a shadow, darkness is ok…as a being of light, a Starseed…embracing the shadow does not mean the darkness will swallow you whole…it makes love deeper and stronger. There is only one vibration for me…the Alpha and Omega…everything else is just human/earth experience, always in motion.

      • 7 mins · Unlike · 1

        • J R Fibonacci Hunn To Brenda, to face a place that has been in the shadows is to bring light (consciousness) to it. In some cases, it is useful to do this “with company” … with other people who have already seen what has been hidden in a shadow.The “freezing” of cons

          ciousness to create a blindspot or “shadow” is a healthy coping mechanism… temporarily. If I am not disgusted or disturbed by something, then I can assist others in bringing light (lightness, humor) to it- perhaps especially if I used to be disgusted or ashamed or disturbed by that same shadow.I know how to joke about some shames with tremendous power and familiarity. In other cases, I can offer lightness but not any personal expertise or insight- just curiosity. However, innocent curiosity can be incredibly powerful.


      • Clare Kent Dogs know shame too,but one could argue this is instilled into them. They are intelligent creatures all animals are, just because we don’t understand inside their brains it doesn’t mean they don’t have feelings or understand their society boundaries. Wolves and dogs are pack/ social animals they know within their group what is tolerated. Merrkats display emotions (i loved meerkat manor) and birds that flock do the same, even within other species. I had a very nippy and aggressive african grey, and another Timmi who idolised me. Sadly, Timmi died and the other became top bird, he changed that day to the most living of birds. As for cats ha, they don’t care. I would like to be a cat I always wanted to be an animal psychologist. I studied my birds and it was fascinating. I also think fear is healthy to a certain degree, but we should only use fear when its necessary and not for trivialities, such as fearing what other may say or think, or fear of other’s. Thats unhealthy and it holds you back.
        • J R Fibonacci Hunn Clare, again thank you for sharing your interests and experience. I have a tendency to present contrary ideas to create new openings for conversation. So, keep that in mind when I say….“We should only use fear when…” Clare is not afraid to use it

          ?In an extreme situation, might it be best to refrain from drawing any attention to myself? Might it be best to remain totally silent… to wait… even to suddenly withdraw with no explanation or justification?

          Isn’t caution intelligent sometimes? Isn’t “being afraid of what people will think” intelligent sometimes? Isn’t “being afraid of what people might do as a consequence / in retaliation” sometimes an intelligent consideration?

        • Brenda Lozano J R without being able to explain to you exactly how…I totally understand every word you have shared here! On the same wavelength…absolutely.
        • Clare Kent I know where my demons lie, as I say I am facing those. I do embrace the dark as well as the light. We need to make sure we are balanced correctly and holding onto old stuff and out of date issues is really unnecessary. I think I have come to a point where I realise the person I am, and not who I am told be be. That’s what I am erasing.
          3 mins · Like · 1


        • J R Fibonacci Hunn Clare, if I am conscious of a shame (like if I can admit it as a subject of shame), then it may not be especially powerful of a demon for me. The ones that someone is not aware of as any issue at all can be the most dominant.For instance, with behavi

          ors like alcoholism or gambling addictions, those are coping mechanisms. Those are not the shame. Those are methods for distracting myself from the actual issue of shame.What happens when someone experiences a core shame from which they have been hiding? Trembling, nausea, hyperventilation, etc….

          • Clare Kent I get what you’re saying, but of course one must take into consideration other people but at the same time don’t forget who you are and what you feel is the right thing. I am not afraid of fear, I fear very little these days aside from spiders. I do have worries like we all do, but life has its own way of correcting things eventually. I believe in karma and balance. I haven’t always thought this way, I was a ‘fight’ reactive, I still am to some degree. I like challenges and I do embrace the darkness, and accept the consequences of my own actions. I take responsibility where I am wrong and I fight for what I know is right.
          • J R Fibonacci Hunn Clare, what “I feel is the right thing” is a product of social conditioning. That is not a problem. That is just a fact. “What is right” is dependent on a cultural context or social context. The idea of “inherently right behaviors” is cultural idealism.The *idea* of “who I really am” is also a cultural construct. Who I really I am is simply not an idea at all. Am I afraid of dropping any idea of “who I really am” and learning something new about me… or even evolving in to somehting that I have never been?

            3 mins · Like

            • Clare Kent No. My morals are my own. When I say I know what is right its what I know and feel inside is right that’s not social that’s all me. I know who I am, well I am learning every day. I stopped truly caring what other people said or thought a long time ago. I want to evolve.

              Just now · Like

              • J R Fibonacci Hunn:
                Clare, maybe you stopped caring what *certain* people think or said. In fact, you may still care now what they did say in the past, but you just were repulsed by what they said, so you withdrew for your own health and well-being. Great!Further, I am confident that you would deeply care about what some people think or say.You would give great attention and interest to their words and expressions. However, you now have high standards and people need to earn your admiration or else you might just respect them from a casual distance without any special personal admiration or interest.Of course you will have preferences in regard to caring about the statements of certain people. Do I care what my clients say? Generally, yes… especially if they say, “I think it is time that we pay you even more than we have been so far.” I notice that I have never argued with someone who was offering me a pay raise or a promotion.

              • J R Fibonacci Hunn As for wanting to evolve, you really have no choice. You will evolve!But being curiously attentive to the process certainly can have advantages over not recognizing it or resisting it.

                For anyone who wants more background on this tangent, here’s an article: https://jrfibonacci.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/courage-and-the-four-fears-fight-flight-freeze-and-fake/

              • Clare Kent That’s an interesting article, I read it but I’m not sure I’ve taken it in its still very early here in London. I will read it again later. Thanks for accepting my friend request.
              • Clare Kent I think perhaps I agree with what you said there. Thanks for the conversation, I value your input it has made me think. Now I need some coffee



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