Dialogue on the language of identity
JR, what if someone refuses to play any role, what so ever. What if they hold on to the perception of idealization as inauthentic (Purposefully seeking out scenarios that fulfill an idealization is not authentic.), and having a specific expectation/standard of life then become recluse and withdraw from the world. What if they are so disgusted by the dynamics of life, that they refuse to participate…?
Hi. Thank you for your correspondence. I trust that my reply will be of interest and value to you.
Concepts like refusal or disgust are not as simple as the practical issues of choosing to spend time alone or choosing to initiate youtube correspondence like this or choosing to plan an event and invite people or whatever else. If there are 59 things that I did not do today, I could list another 724, but why bother?
I could explain to you my reasons for not doing them, but if I shared those ideas with you, then that would be me doing sharing with you. I can explore ideas and share them, perhaps very selectively and cautiously. Maybe I like having a lot of time to write and edit before I share.
I have found a certain amount of private time for introspection to be attractive and valuable. With that preference for a certain amount of private time in mind, I could even call “recluse” a role, as well as “rebel” or “reject” or “critic” or “outsider.” We could even use adjectives instead of nouns, like “introspective” or “nerdy” or “spiritual” or “deep” or “contemplative.” Playing with words would be the “function” of exploring language, right?
So, I value private introspection in to psycho-linguistics. Yet, I also have found certain particular social opportunities attractive and valuable, and of course those change over time like from age 10 to age 20 to age 30, right?
When I value more private introspection, I may discover opportunities for that, including withdrawing or pushing away. When I value more socializing, I may discover opportunities for that.
In sharing my own introspection with others who are interested in introspection (or might be), that is what might be called alert interaction. Clearly, there is interaction in “alert interaction.” Also, there is a recurring alertness to introspection and subjectivity. We could even presume to call that alertness “maturity,” though other people might call it very different things or nothing at all.
So, regarding the dynamics of life, am I life? Yes, and you are life, too. The “dynamics of life” could reference a few specific social dynamics or the introspective study of language or the sciences of physiology and nutrition and biology and anthropology.
As for disgust, anyone experiencing disgust for some particular alternative would tend to behave with refusal and withdrawal, which can be followed by new initiatives. Also, resentment can be held as a grudge or, perhaps in a trusted private confidentiality, vulnerability can be explored along with rage and grief and fear and so on- and I propose that those are all valid patterns or else neuro-chemical biology would not produce the behavior patterns to which we attach those various labels..
There is also the experience of linguistic complexities like “I’m disgusted with my self.” It is really kind of a weird thing to say- even funny. Imagine your favorite cartoon character saying it: “I’m just so disgusted with myself!” I chose the character from Family Guy named Stewie: “Oh dear me, I’m just so disGUSted with myself!” That also reminds me of C3PO from Star Wars: “Oh dear, Master Luke, I’m just so disGUSted with myself!”
Anyway, things happen that I may find disgusting or that others may find disgusting (which typically means terrifying with an extra element of paranoia and thus rejection). That is what disgust is like. While no one may seek out to be disgusted, it is rather natural to eventually experience disgust for a variety of things, perhaps even one’s own past or one’s story about how one should have been/ should not have been….
I read your reply numerous times, and I’m not sure I still understand what you mean with all that you have written.
I’ll try to address what I did understand or what is relative (within my understanding) to the comment I posted.
If fulfilling a role is made aware (like being the compassionate, forgiving mother; like you stated) and is then purposefully acted against, what would that be? And is it possible to refuse to act out not just a single role, but any and all roles? Is it possible by doing so to become a “non” person? In general, is it possible to lose your identity?
Also, I’ve spent alot of time w/ introspection. When I say “the dynamics of life” I am really trying to summarize a whole of categorical information, stemming from philosophical, sociological, psychological, biological and theological roots.
It is a view based on a collection of my ideas (via my experience and understanding) that I’ve created.
It’s largely just my understanding of our human nature, and I’ve really been able to break it down into fragments of its former idealized state.
This nihilistic, negative world view has left me in a severe, severe depression, unable to cope with the world I am trapped in.
I am crippled by so many different avenues of thought, it’s completely overwhelming. It seems the more I search for “the truth” the more lost I become. The “truth” is turning very ugly, and it is causing me to retreat from the battlefields of life and find something that is worth the battle.
I was raised Catholic, so my religious dogmas play a huge part in this search for truth. I am no longer practicing. I just feel completely lost in this primal, dog eat dog world. I question EVERYTHING. I question where our human nature comes from, I question where will comes from, I question the reason to fight for values, I question even what are values? I question our opportunistic nature, and why people are so greedy and why people only want to benefit themselves. Why the ugliness in life? Where is the beauty that I supposedly hear about, all I see is a mask… and the ugliness lies beneath, life is a rotting corpse with make-up on to me.
Do I make any sense? I must have written this last part just to humor myself and see if I can even put my madness into some kind of existence outside my own brain.
This is my sisters account, I am her older brother… for whatever that is worth… it’s fair to let you know that.
Let’s start simple. In language, there can be a process of identifying: like the terms “me, us, she, he, good boy, student, sister, mother, the first employee to arrive on time, a tree branch, front of my hand, back of my hand. Americans, intelligent mammals, the dead plant, that chair, this computer.” That process of identifying can create identities.
Those dividings in language are not fundamental. There is no fundamental boundary between Americans and Europeans or between the front of my hand and the back of my hand. All categorical isolating is linguistic and merely proclaimed or declared.
So, identifying an isolated me is possible and in the absence of identifying an isolated me, there is no neuro-linguistic isolating of a “me.” Person means a persona or a personality or a character or a role or a linguistic identifying.
I can say, “hey you refuse to be a 7 year-old dog.” That implies two roles: the one refusing and the one declaring that the other is refusing. Neither roles are anything but roles. All roles are idealisms.
Words only categorize reality as in organize perception of reality and isolating of linguistic identifyings. Words do not alter reality. Consider: “I declare that you are a year-old dog now.” Did that change anything about you or me or anything else? It is just the voicing of a character of silliness and relaxation.
Anyway, I just read your comment about being trapped. You can trap yourself with patterns of language, but keep in mind that “you” are just a pattern in language. Your worldview is just a habit of linguistic organizing. If it does not serve you, then find other patterns of linguistic organizing. Or, question the existence of the “you” who could be trapped or not or think of it.
“I am trapped by _______.” That is a declaration. “I am seeking to get out of the trap of _____ by ___________.” That is actually the same declaration, just with more complexity and extra linguistic presumptions (ideals, beliefs).
“I am trapped by my words.” “I should not be trapped.” “I am a trap made out of words.” “I am a trap for words and I reflexively reject some words and hang on to others.”
Depression and claiming to be trapped are a coping mechanism involving fear or terror. However, the world that you view or perceive is a product or projection of a presumptive worldview or perspective or linguistic organizing.
It is fine to be afraid of the world and resentful and so on. It is also fine to organize the world in some other way or none at all.
Depression is like when energy has been exhausted with a coping mechanism that is not very efficient or functional. Relax. You do not need to anxiously find another coping mechanism. You have other emotional responses and you will spontaneously experience others as you relax from suppressing or repressing or depressing them. That tension (such as perfectionism) is exhausting to maintain, so I invite you to make fun of it.
You are the truth. Stop searching for it. However, without distress, you may explore whatever you explore. Just beware of categorizing lots of things as “not the truth.” That rejecting is optional.
Santa Claus is a true myth. Inaccurate scientific models are true scientific models. Language is only a portion of reality. Language may be the absolute least rewarding part of reality to explore if one is interested in truth.
However, if one is interested in the truth of language, then one will find the truth about lying and misinterpretation and confusion and presumption and pretense. Recognizing the truth of what language is could bring an end to misconception about a self-image. Self-images are in fact only ideals or images of a self constructed through linguistic identifying.
Also, the truth of language is very threatening to the identity of being trapped in a depression because language is the realm of humor and irony and parody and satire, and those patterns of coping can be very disruptive to a perfectionist depression.
Why shouldn’t people want to benefit themselves (or their offspring, clan, tribe, company, nation, etc)? Even “what is beneficial” and “what is detrimental” are just labels in language.
Beware of humoring yourself and sharing your madness. You may find that it is mad as in crazy hilarious rather than mad as in angry. Also, beware of paranoia and anxiety. (That was a joke.)
Also, I should let you know that this is not my account but my prophet’s account. I am God Almighty, but I have access to all of the internet and beyond, and, technically speaking, I could identify any account that I like as mine because I am the one who declared things in to being through speaking, who invents words, who influences perception, who creates worlds of world views, and sometimes pretends not to be God, you know, just to see how long I can go without noticing, like in a staring contest waiting for one of my creations to blink and lose the game.
I am the front of your hand battling against the back of your hand. I am the internal dilemma going on in exactly 739 brain cells that do not now the difference between their own mitochondria and a hole in the ground.
One last thing: I was raised human, by the way, so I can relate to everything that you’ve been saying. 😉
So “I” am only a pattern of words?
I don’t mean to negate from all that you have written, which is fantastic… I’m just trying to get to the bottom of this shit so I can finally move on with my/this life.
You are life. You cannot “get on with your life.”
“Your life” is only a pattern of two words. Forget about the first word “your” and notice how life is already getting on with or without anyone categorizing some of it as “mine” or “not mine.”
“This life” is just happening. There is nothing to be done about it and perhaps no one to do nothing about it.
This life has been happening already and is still happening now and might even continue happening. Part of this life is the little shapes on this screen that can be labeled “words of the English language.”
What is the barrier between “this life” and these little word shapes? What is the boundary between “this life” and the quotation marks around “this life?” There no boundary between a boundary that only exists in language and another boundary that only exists in language. There is just language happening, along with anything else.
“I think, therefore I am” is about identity. It could be rephrased as “As I speak, that speaking can construct an image of who I am and how life is FOR ME.”
….I appreciate your responses, you have some great insight… I am unable to completely understand, but I’m sure I would if I spent some time learning your views on things.
The mind cannot escape from the mind. The mind is just some momentum in language, such as “but I am unable to due to….”
What you wrote is not actually the world. That is a bunch of words about a world that you claim as “your life.” However, you can certainly claim that your words about the world are the only world and that some particular pattern of organizing perception and identifying the world is the only one possible. That’s arrogantly naive, but not uncommon.
We could talk on skype (or just by phone). However, I may question your ideal that you question everything. You only question in the ways that sustain the experience you have now.
There may be something to admit, like to share with me or someone else, about how creating some sort of role of misery or paralysis was valuable for you. It’s just a role.
You apparently like it better than some other role that you were fleeing from and the role you created was your preference (or “life’s preference”). So be it. However, you might recognize that you are interested in other patterns, other roles, other identities. As you explore, even cautiously and cynically, you risk finding a new experience that will confront you with the possibility of sacrificing your misery.
You cannot take it with you to heaven. You cannot even go to heaven. However, if you disappear, then heaven may be recognized as already present.
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